Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...

[alatar]

Sorry its not my thing, be productive and maybe I'll be more open minded on it.

Cortez has spent 13 long pages of open discussion, openly admitting that he could be wrong, or mistaken for any reason, and now you claim that he is not productive, and that justifies a reason for a staff member to openly throw bombs at him?

You're a clown if you think anything you have said could nullify the way you respond to a CONCERNED player, one who only made a suggestion, and even stated he could have misunderstood.

You fall into the same category as Nevermore, arrogant.

[Faust]

Where did he ever say that he could be wrong or mistaken?

The only clown is a chump that posts on these forums and idles our irc when you don't even play here, lol.

[Rdb]

[alatar]

Where did he ever say that he could be wrong or mistaken?

The only clown is a chump that posts on these forums and idles our irc when you don't even play here, lol.

Copy & Paste all your replies..?

I don't see how my activity on this server has anything to do with the valid points I make. You seem to be out of ammunition to forum-insult me with, as this has been your response nearly 5 times now.

Are you under the impression that anything you say is affecting me, because the speedy and continuous replies you make about me being "inactive" is pretty bogus. How does it even merit anything..? I played here long before you even knew this server existed, and I've watched morons like you weasel their way into the staff team and/or development team as well. Sorry, but your not the first douchebag to successfully pull it off.

Please, respond with the words "I do not own an account higher than the access level of player". Let me quote this for you.

I HAVE NO SPECIAL STAFF PRIVILEGES AT ALL ANYMORE. This has been the case for several months now.

Not that it matters, but what you have been claiming for so long, really is void when you make comments like these. Now, are you really going to reply with another "You don't play here anymore!" response..?

[Ezp]

Not one of his posts he says he might be wrong. Im in doubt you've read all of them? It's 13 pages of bashing Faust, whom I believe you don't like. In which is why you are taking this approach on this subject or even caring about it. I respect all player's opinion and ideas. Im just not seeing it on this thread, and Derrrick would agree this thread isn going nowhere. It's gone nowhere for 14 pages now, im not for censorship or I would have trashed it by now.

[alatar]

Not one of his posts he says he might be wrong. Im in doubt you've read all of them? It's 13 pages of bashing Faust, whom I believe you don't like. In which is why you are taking this approach on this subject or even caring about it. I respect all player's opinion and ideas. Im just not seeing it on this thread, and Derrrick would agree this thread isn going nowhere. It's gone nowhere for 14 pages now, im not for censorship or I would have trashed it by now.

I could care less about this thread. I've made my point, and those who feel the same way will stand up soon. If I were you I would be more concerned about the way you represent the server you "staff" on, rather than forum battling a suggestion thread.

[Kraarug]

Not one of his posts he says he might be wrong. Im in doubt you've read all of them? It's 13 pages of bashing Faust, whom I believe you don't like. In which is why you are taking this approach on this subject or even caring about it. I respect all player's opinion and ideas. Im just not seeing it on this thread, and Derrrick would agree this thread isn going nowhere. It's gone nowhere for 14 pages now, im not for censorship or I would have trashed it by now.

Faust, you’re abusive tactics only work on the weak. Keep it up and you’ll be the single most important factor that drives new and current players and their contributions away.

As for me, I am aware of your intimidate, bully, attempt to confuse and outlast modus operendi and it doesn’t bother me.

I challenged you to back up your source and you can’t do it.

Rather, in response, you state you require me to try to disprove a narrow parameter of your whole case when the rest of the case has been rebuffed. Nice try but it’s no dice.

You get angry because I refuse to let you try to overrun and confuse the topic with your personal attacks and conjecture. An example? Accusing me of not knowing the era.

The fact is, it’s all I know of UO. I certainly was not a noob. I was the co-GM and eventually GM of TKF of Chessy, one of the largest guilds on that shard in 1999. We met in March of 2000 in Lexington, KY where most of us quit in response to UO:R. I didn’t get there by being an idiot.

You charge me with making a mistake with my recollection of poison and you are right, I didn’t remember using a 2 handed weapon but I stand corrected. As far as the heal-through-poison issue, I thought the mechanics on the shard was UO:R but when I tested it again I saw that I was mistaken.

Please, I didn’t play UO T2A? I never PvPed in UO:R. I tried a player run shard in 2004 for a week and didn’t get back into UO until I found this place.

Please keep the discussion civil and speak to the points and not the people.

This may have worked in getting this bugged theory implemented, I’m assuming that you tried to plow through other members of your team too, but your case has too many hole to stand wider criticism.

I honestly do not know why Derrick allowed this flawed mechanic in the server anyway.

I certainly hope that your behavior is considered and eventually your contributions curtailed. I suspect that a great many players here would not miss you. Nor would they miss me and why would they?

I’m simply trying to get to the bottom of a mechanic that exists here that we can find no collaborated research on.

That’s enough in your eyes to try to attack me. That’s pathetic.

Stay on topic.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Obviously not.. Anyone with any clue of PvP doesn't cast an explosion after their initial spell combo.. That's just asking for your opponent to get a free heal off, and I hardly see how the opponent WOULDN'T be able to heal, when in the middle of a fight the attacker stops to cast an exploision - ebolt combo, which is nearly 3+ seconds of free time to heal, if not twice..

Ezp, you seem pretty hostile for a staff member, especially towards someone who is merely making suggestions. I certainly am not missing the hostile staff that have resided here.

Well if I understand interruption delays right, he could of interrupted a GHEAL with a weaken, and then casted explosion and then interrupting another GHEAL with a halberd whack.

The delay they are talking about is the removal of the SWING FIRST or Insta-Hit mechanism that the dev board was openly planning to remove. This was pretty much general knowlege at the time, unlike other features you advocate, no 3rd party programs were required.

Why would they be talking about a weapon delay that has yet to be put in, and they have yet to even experience, they are obviously talking about skipping the old weapon delay.

You speak as if you have no other choice but to read, and furthermore, comment on the situation at hand. You are a staff member here, and your reply clearly speaks for itself, and in the context you use it seems clear to me that there has been private discussion on this matter, and it seems obvious that you have for some time disagreed with this OP's suggestion/idea. If this had been the first time you read this topic, what would possess you to randomly insult the OP for making a suggestion, in which he has already been bashed NUMEROUS times for, by both staff members & players..?

The OP is Faust, not Cortez, Cortez simply Bumped this thread for some reason.

Laugh at me but you're wrong.

Prove it.

But the existing system, a system of checks and balances, both checked, and balanced by Faust is not working. Forcing everybody but Faust to prove themselves to Faust while simultaneously enduring his verbal lashings for even presenting the information to begin with is a failed system. System's like this result in little progress and one man's vision controlling the fate of the shard. I'm sorry, but no matter how great or right one person is, he is never going to be as great or right as many.
This has gone back and forth for 13 pages. No new evidence on either side has been brought in, so at this point its really just two people making the same exact point over and over with the occasional break of another person choosing sides.

Cortez has no real evidence that the 2 second timer did not exist, but that was kind of his point all along. He has never stated he has proof that it doesn't exist, but simply, that Faust's proof for it existing is shady at best. If Cortez has achieved nothing else, I think he has achieved that.

If, for instance, Faust had come here and had this same discussion before he implemented it, I'm not sure it would have passed muster. Now it is in, and because of that, Faust has the upperhand in the argument. This way, right or wrong, is now the "status quo," and it seems odd that its not enough to prove its a premise built on shady evidence, but you actually have to find the correct answer as well.

Maybe we will never find the right answer. Its quite clear to me there are aspects of T2A pvp that will never ever be known for sure and where does that leave us? Do we simply leave it at the "status quo," paralyzed by lack of evidence or facts, or do we go by our guts, and try to recreate something that if nothing else *feels* right.

I don't know the answer, but I do know that right now, as many have stated, it doesn't *feel* right yet. There are probably so many variables involved that even the smallest thing, like this, can have huge implications with server population and balance of playstyles.

To me, the easiest thing in the world is to just let people talk, and express the inconsistencies they are feeling or maybe slightly remember. If others have similiar recollections we then implement something on test and give it a little run through to see how it goes. If its completely wrong, or obviously stupid, that will show, and people will be there seeing why its stupid and why it doesn't work.

But the existing system, a system of checks and balances, both checked, and balanced by Faust is not working. Forcing everybody but Faust to prove themselves to Faust while simultaneously enduring his verbal lashings for even presenting the information to begin with is a failed system. System's like this result in little progress and one man's vision controlling the fate of the shard. I'm sorry, but no matter how great or right one person is, he is never going to be as great or right as many.

Are you insane? You can post patch notes just like Faust can, all Faust did was show a possible theory behind why people remember Spell Refresh and it was implemented because it worked.

Not one of his posts he says he might be wrong. Im in doubt you've read all of them? It's 13 pages of bashing Faust, whom I believe you don't like. In which is why you are taking this approach on this subject or even caring about it. I respect all player's opinion and ideas. Im just not seeing it on this thread, and Derrrick would agree this thread isn going nowhere. It's gone nowhere for 14 pages now, im not for censorship or I would have trashed it by now.

Yep this thread has been worthless since page 8, and Cortez has only been looping his same old crap since then, he probably has a script for it.

[Ezp]

Just keep the thread productive all im asking you ppl to do. I don't care about your stance on this subject. Im in agreement that there was a refresh delay, I won't say otherwise until I see some real evidence.

As for Alatar... Sorry you can't understand what I was trying to do Actually I think you do, except you're just trying to provoke ppl instead of contributing. Think what you want of me, I don't really care. All I know is you haven't helped this thread either but instead contributed to the bashing. So inturn you're hurting the server which you no longer play I guess, maybe im wrong ust going on another's post? Sorry if im wrong?

I'll leave it at that

[Kraarug]

Here's a interested reference about T2A PvP.

From this source we can look at the math and establish a few things...

http://web.archive.org/web/200107221249 ... actics.asp
Source: MarkeeDragon

This is the page references Faust's the UOPowergamers information posted in other posts... that's highted in Blue.

My points, in Red.

PvP Tactics

Part I (Mage)
Mage vs. Mage

Don't tie your PvP style to one tactic. You are like a football team. You need several plays in your play book. Be versatile and well practiced with several different tactics.

(This section posted with permission of Tim of GL)

This is a guide intended for the mages who wish to become better at PvP. If you are attacked and do not wish to fight back, then recall out when they cast explosion, ebolt, or flamestrike. Recall has a lesser delay and so you will make it out. For those of you who want to fight back/ want to be able to attack people and actually kill them, then read on. Also, I may make a group PvP guide. Finally, you can bitch at me over this guide by e-mailing me.

NOTE: This guide is somewhat based upon Redrum's over at UO Powergamers. His guide is very well written, however, I will expand upon his tactics, give you some new ones, since his mage v mage guide is written for a mage that uses swords. Mine uses macing, and so I will make references to what to do if you are macing. Enough of the legal/pre-guide BS on to the good stuff:

Things to Remember:
Use the instant-hit with your weapon whenever possible (instant-hit= where you arm your weapon right after you cast a spell on your opponent---with pre-casting gone remember to target first!!!---then run up to your opponent with weapon in hand. This is a bug that lets you get a free hit off, with no delay. So use it while you still can.). Second, Try to preserve your mana as much as possible (more on this later). Finally, with pre-casting gone, almost all of the tactics revolve around the use of the greater heal spell, so let's hope OSI decides not to f*ck with it

The Fight:
To start things off, cast Harm on your opponent to knock of your reflect. Harm is better than Magic Arrow in 2 ways. First, if harm does get through, then you will hopefully lower your opponent's attributes, where as in Magic Arrow your opponent would take 1 damage. (NOTE: If your Harm goes through in a fair 1 v 1 match, chances are you are dealing with an idiot, since it means that they did not have reflect up). Second, if Harm reflects, it will reflect back immediately with no delay, where as in Magic Arrow has a slight delay and could end up disrupting your next spell, which would suck. Next, go for the instant-hit with your weapon (if macing, I suggest the War Hammer, for swords, go with the halberd). Now come the scenarios:

* Your opponent casts an offensive after your instant-hit: If he shrugs of your instant-hit like its nothing, and casts an offensive spell, then cast an offensive spell of your own in response. I like explosion here, since after you cast it you run in for another instant-hit, and with luck they will hit at same time, and your opponent will be dead since he didn't heal earlier. Any offensive spell will work fine, though. Just remember to go for the instant-hit afterwards. If your opponent tries to heal afterwards, should he not be dead, then cast something to disturb his heal (weaken, harm, clumsy, feeblemind), then try another instant-hit, and run after him with your main weapon (quarter staff or katana), in which case my advice turns over to the next section. Originally, when your opponent casts his offensive spell right after the fight starts, you can cast greater heal in response, however you will most likely lose, so you are advised to not heal until you are at 50-60% life, so you can get the most out of your greater heals and mana.



* Your opponent casts greater heal in response to any of your offensive spells (explosion, ebolt, FS) during the fight: In this case, if your opponent casts greater heal in response to your off spell, then cancel out the spell and arm your main weapon (again, quarter staff or katana) a and take it to them. Why? First off, if you let your offensive spell fly, your opponent will simply let his GH once you do your damage, and you would have pissed away 20 or 40 mana and some reagents (and in these post-precast days fights may come down to who runs out of regs first). Second, if your opponent doesn't cancel his GH, when you start to whack him with your weapon, he cant arm a weapon himself because pre-casting is gone. So all he can do now is let you whack on him and let his heal go. Eventually, if this continues, he will run out of mana and victory will be yours. When your opponent loses 50-60% of his health, disarm and cast ebolt on him. If he heals, then its going to be a llllllloooooonnnnnngggggg fight If so, then follow the tactics laid out above, remember to heal when you lose 50% of your life, and try get in instant-hits after your offensive spells. Also, stick with them so that they cant get their instant-hits off, plus with high wrestling you may disturb their spells and do some free damage.

Other Possible Tactic:

* This is one that usually doesn't work against mages, especially if they are carrying trapped pouches. Harm then paralyze instead of instant-hit. Then throw a greater explosion potion, cast explosion, and cast a flamestrike. If he is still alive, and equip your halberd or war hammer to give the final blow. Odds are they will die

GOOD LUCK and pray that it doesn't come down to whoever runs out of regs first.
*
*
Words of Wisdom.
o

Always use Deadly Poisoned weapons when possible. Regardless if you use a Sword or a Fencing weapon, carry 2 of the weapon with you. One is to be the one with the Deadly Poison and the other is the one you fight the fight with following getting your opponent poisoned. For the sake of costs, there is little added value in the Deadly Poisoned weapon being special, not even GM quality. It just needs the poison on it. If you want to use magic weapons, then I would put Deadly Poison potion on the most accurate weapon I had. Just change weapons after the target is poisoned.
o

Before the fight, cast protection on yourself to temporarily give you armor.
o

Before the fight, cast reactive armor on yourself to disturb their concentration if they try to cast anything, and to add more damage when you hit them with a combat skill.
o

Before the fight, cast bless on yourself and cast heal on yourself to temporarily give you more stats.
o

Before the fight, cast curse on your opponent to temporarily decrease their stats.
o

Before the fight, guzzle a greater agility potion, and a total refresh potion to add more stamina.
o

Also before the fight, guzzle a greater strength potion, and a greater heal potion to add more hit points.
o

If you get to 50% life or lower, and can't drink a heal potion, or you've run out of heal potions, un-equip your weapon, and cast a greater heal on yourself.
o

If you have heal potions, drink them when you lose 20-30% life.
o

If you're fighting a mace fighter, don't drink a total refresh potion until all or most of your stamina is run out, because total refreshes can refresh your 25 stamina easily. If you keep drinking total refreshes, no matter what you're stamina is at, you'll be wasting them and will eventually run out.
o

If you're almost dead (20% life or lower), and can't get a greater heal off without getting disrupted, drink a greater heal and cast regular heal, because it cannot be disrupted no matter what.
o

If you see your opponent casting paralyze, and you don't have any magic trapped containers; cast magic arrow, and target yourself when you get paralyzed - you will be free to move again

Okay, why am I pointing out the things in red?

Well, I'm pointing out the math and the use of "insta-hit".

You'll see that Insta-Hit is exactly how I describe it . Basically it takes the damage of an armed cooled down attack speed timer first.

Next, go for the instant-hit with your weapon (if macing, I suggest the War Hammer, for swords, go with the halberd). Now come the scenarios:

* Your opponent casts an offensive after your instant-hit: If he shrugs of your instant-hit like its nothing, and casts an offensive spell, then cast an offensive spell of your own in response. I like explosion here, since after you cast it you run in for another instant-hit, and with luck they will hit at same time,

So, first debuff, then Insta-hit
<begin math here>
Cast EXP [1.75 seconds]
Rearm
Try to time Insta hit and EXP for same time [EXP dmg delay = 3.0 seconds]
Total time: 4.75 seconds.

then try another instant-hit, and run after him with your main weapon (quarter staff or katana),

Lastly, notice he suggests switching to a Katana or Q staff as "mains"
If a 2 second flat timer existed there would be no benefit to this. You'd just disarm the Hally as soon as the hit was over and rearm because you'd be faster than the standard timer with a Katana and a full 25 stamina which puts you at a 2.25 (OSI TICK) attack.

[Orsi]

May I suggest just locking this thread? This is turning into a personal brawl against people and not a productive discussion. I for one will not try to argue with people who's rebuttals are strewn with insults.

If I thought my suggestions and criticism were actually helping I'd continue, but seeing as though staff members are now involved and can't conduct themselves properly, it's apparent this issue is a lost cause.

EDIT: I want to end with this as I just read it...

This has gone back and forth for 13 pages. No new evidence on either side has been brought in, so at this point its really just two people making the same exact point over and over with the occasional break of another person choosing sides.

Cortez has no real evidence that the 2 second timer did not exist, but that was kind of his point all along. He has never stated he has proof that it doesn't exist, but simply, that Faust's proof for it existing is shady at best. If Cortez has achieved nothing else, I think he has achieved that.

If, for instance, Faust had come here and had this same discussion before he implemented it, I'm not sure it would have passed muster. Now it is in, and because of that, Faust has the upperhand in the argument. This way, right or wrong, is now the "status quo," and it seems odd that its not enough to prove its a premise built on shady evidence, but you actually have to find the correct answer as well.

Maybe we will never find the right answer. Its quite clear to me there are aspects of T2A pvp that will never ever be known for sure and where does that leave us? Do we simply leave it at the "status quo," paralyzed by lack of evidence or facts, or do we go by our guts, and try to recreate something that if nothing else *feels* right.

I don't know the answer, but I do know that right now, as many have stated, it doesn't *feel* right yet. There are probably so many variables involved that even the smallest thing, like this, can have huge implications with server population and balance of playstyles.

To me, the easiest thing in the world is to just let people talk, and express the inconsistencies they are feeling or maybe slightly remember. If others have similiar recollections we then implement something on test and give it a little run through to see how it goes. If its completely wrong, or obviously stupid, that will show, and people will be there seeing why its stupid and why it doesn't work.

But the existing system, a system of checks and balances, both checked, and balanced by Faust is not working. Forcing everybody but Faust to prove themselves to Faust while simultaneously enduring his verbal lashings for even presenting the information to begin with is a failed system. System's like this result in little progress and one man's vision controlling the fate of the shard. I'm sorry, but no matter how great or right one person is, he is never going to be as great or right as many.

[Faust]

Cortez,

He is talking about the time in between getting from point A to point B to get the insta hit off when the explosion hits. This means absolutely nothing to back up your argument... You are simply using his "favorite" spell in this situation... I find it funny how you don't comment about the rest of it. I don't mind at all throwing this out there...

I like explosion here, since after you cast it you run in for another instant-hit, and with luck they will hit at same time, and your opponent will be dead since he didn't heal earlier. Any offensive spell will work fine, though. Just remember to go for the instant-hit afterwards.

Notice that he says ANY spell will work fine though and to JUST remember to go for the insta hit afterwards... This is AFTER specifically saying that he uses an insta hit before this next move. The series of events that occur in this situation is a weapon, cast, weapon... Hrm, what does that sound like again? Oh, hally, ebolt, hally... What do you know, huh? Again, you are only making things worse on yourself by your feeble attempts to prove your points.

Nice try slipping that one bye... It didn't work though.

Also, the reason it was best to use kat/qstaff during this time period was because pre-casting was removed. You could no longer perform massive damage combos and would have to literally beat the hell out of them with fast weapons getting more interruptions in unlike previously before it was removed. The removal of pre-casting utterly made pvp horrible and beyond luck based.

You are also forgetting to take into account of the counter measure to weapon cycles. You cannot cycle a weapon if you stick to your opponent making them wrestle evertyime it's about to refresh. This was the MOST crucial tactic to counter a weapon cycle.

This evidence is actually overwhelming in regard to the 2 second disarm delay.

Sorry, you have failed again.

[Kraarug]

You don't understand the post. Re-read.

[Derrick]

This is turning into a personal brawl against people and not a productive discussion.

While I agree that the repetition of a lot of this is painful, I'm honestly still hoping something conclusive, even if unrelated will drop in my lap. There is a lot of passion here on this topic, and out of this type of thread in the past (although not usually this long) have come answers. I'm still seeing new information posted, and without making any judgment as to relevance I feel that this thread has merit as long as people are still interested in the topic (which they clearly are).

It's painful to read as i first stated 5 pages ago, but there are some unanswered questions here and i don't know if we're quite ready for closing arguments. I do appreciate Sences post.

[Kraarug]

I like explosion here, since after you cast it you run in for another instant-hit, and with luck they will hit at same time, and your opponent will be dead since he didn't heal earlier. Any offensive spell will work fine, though. Just remember to go for the instant-hit afterwards.

Notice that he says ANY spell will work fine though and to JUST remember to go for the insta hit afterwards... This is AFTER specifically saying that he uses an insta hit before this next move. The series of events that occur in this situation is a weapon, cast, weapon... Hrm, what does that sound like again? Oh, hally, ebolt, hally... What do you know, huh? Again, you are only making things worse on yourself by your feeble attempts to prove your points.

Nice try slipping that one bye... It didn't work though.

I'll walk you through this...

So, first debuff, then Insta-hit
<begin math here>
Cast EXP [1.75 seconds]
Rearm
Try to time Insta hit and EXP for same time [EXP dmg delay = 3.0 seconds]
Total time: 4.75 seconds.

Faust, this is

weapon, cast, weapon

.

Here it is in slow motion for you...

Code: Select all

Weapon Attack Speed:
(Assume 25 dex, 25 stamina, Hally Weapon Speed of 25)
Hally Attack = 15,000 / [(25 stam + 100)*25 Weapon Speed] = 4.8 seconds or 5.0 OSI Timer

Actions:
debuff 
Insta-hit [start 5 second cool down now] <w e a p o n>  
disarm [re-start 5 second cool down now]
Cast EXP [1.75 seconds] <c a s t>
hold for Exp and Insta Hit sync
Target [EXP dmg delay = 3.0 seconds]
wait for timer cool down
Rearm <w e a p o n>
Try to time Insta hit and EXP for same time 
Total Cast to EXP dmg time: 5 seconds.
Hally Whack [5 seconds after disarm]

You'd need to 'float' the spell timing for a double damage hit without pre-casting.


How does this differ from what you promote?
He says any offenseive spell... If your bug existed he would say cast a 6th level spell.... more importantly he would just say...

"Use your ebolt to refresh your hally swing"
Or
"by the time you cast ebolt your will will be ready"
Or
"with the 2 second unequip refresh, select your spell accordingly for a fast hally whack".


I wonder why he or anyone else fails to mentions a 2 second delay? I think that is pretty obvious. It just didn't exist.

His guide tells you to cast anything because he expects you to use your swing when the timer is ready. That means the real timer and not some special gift from the Dev Board.

Most importantly, he specifcally suggests the Explosion/Insta-Hit and if you insert the math for 25 stam and a Hally you can see why.

It's set up for a 5 second double damage.



Otherwise if there was a bug he'd just say Hally Ebolt Hally Ebolt and reduce his risk of carple tunnel sx with all the extra typing.