Hemperor was right. (Razor features)

[Guerrilla]

I honestly think the guys that aren't for forcing razor to connect are really making a big deal out of nothing, its not gonna hurt anybody to have to log in thru razor, to achieve greater era accuracy. The 2 or 3 that connect without it, would just download the program and login, It's really not as big of a deal as you guys are making it seem.

force razor + disabling features = increase era accuracy

light levels is just one object, not that big of a deal either.. most people will just in lor as opposed to opening a web browser and scouring to find out how to modify game files... let's be realistic here.

Basically what you are saying, is that you refuse to force people to use razor to login with features turned off, thus enabling them to have to double click potions,which would make (gameplay great), because people will simply modify their files for light levels, it really makes no sense.

The gains from forcing a limited razor program far outweight the very few quirks, that can be enabled by modification of files.... no reason not to force razor, and thats not just opinion, ITS THE TRUTH.'

And as far as people will still use other 3rd party software is concerned.... You will be able to detect it easier.... wont have to differentiate if it's razor or if it's EUO, because people will know that its not razor... if this ever goes into effect of course...

[bushman]

I honestly think the guys that aren't for forcing razor to connect are really making a big deal out of nothing

seconded

while it might be relatively easy to circumvent light levels some other way, removal of razor filter would drop the amount of people having no light levels, since now it's just a basic thing almost everybody uses, all you have to do is check one box

making use of ''negotiate features with server'' would be much more a good thing than the other, possibly even increasing player base in the long run due to being one part of a better shard

[Light Shade]

I would love to limit this, I've put a lot of effort ito getting nightsight, light levels and day and night working correctly.

Sadly I don't think it's a good idea. Razor isn't the only way to modify your light levels, it can also be done by editing the client files, there's of course no way to detect this, and the info is out there on how to do it. If we felt that using Razor limitation was a good idea I would limit nightsight, however the simplicity of circumventing such a system can't justify instantiating a Razor requirement. It would be just as effective for us to make an official recommendation that the light-level filter not be used.

Whereas I still hate Razor and all that it ruins in this game in a general sense, I have never been a fan of the argument "People can easily circumvent this, so lets not bother." Either you're trying to be Era-Accurate or you're not. Cheaters will always be cheaters. If you stopped doing something because someone could cheat it, you'd realistically have to just pull the plug and take up gardening.

After all the posts on how to keep razor working in the forums, I would say that my previous statements about razor being terrible are irrelevant. I would like to see razor forced and light levels forced...along with several other outstanding Era-Accuracy issues addressed (Scavenger, etc...). Cheats and circumvents should be ignored...the goal is Era-Accuracy.

...or is the goal Era-Accuracy unless someone can cheat/circumvent, then the heck with it...?

Just my thoughts.

[Jester]

Whereas I still hate Razor and all that it ruins in this game in a general sense, I have never been a fan of the argument "People can easily circumvent this, so lets not bother." Either you're trying to be Era-Accurate or you're not. Cheaters will always be cheaters. If you stopped doing something because someone could cheat it, you'd realistically have to just pull the plug and take up gardening.

After all the posts on how to keep razor working in the forums, I would say that my previous statements about razor being terrible are irrelevant. I would like to see razor forced and light levels forced...along with several other outstanding Era-Accuracy issues addressed (Scavenger, etc...). Cheats and circumvents should be ignored...the goal is Era-Accuracy.

I couldn't agree more with what Lightshade is saying. Cheaters will always be cheaters, but let's be honest how many people would really be editing files, downloading wierd programs and messing around with their UO client ? I highly doubt that it'd be that many. Even if there's an abundance of players doing it like someone said earlier in this thread, it'll just be easier to detect them and to recognize who's cheating and not!

I'd love to see what's possible with macroing be limited, Force people to interact more, t'would be awesome!

[Blaise]

Also worth noting, in regards to new clients or those who don't use Razor, I understand that this would cause a support issue when the time comes that it is required.
Perhaps, if the idea were to be considered, make sure to put more emphasis on the support resources such as IRC/Forums.
I know that many people who spend a significant amount of time in either are poised and ready for any technical questions about the shard and it's many nuances. Why scoff at having one more small hurdle, considering the Razor client is already bundled with the UO install? Add some highlighted references and links to these support resources on the client download page (after altering the Download Client link/image in the top right to point to the Join Us: Connecting page).

Just some thoughts. I know it seems like it's a burden to require such of the clients, but if accuracy of the experience/gameplay-mechanics is what we're after, it's not like the players must use Razor in their gameplay, it's just a connection method that can be minimized anyway. I played for a month or so here, connecting with and without Razor but not using it for gameplay assistance.

Regarding the cheaters, of course, some will do it, but we also have %90 (or something) of the PvPers running around with tree-hacks anyway. Doesn't mean everyone does it just because the information is out there.

[inmani]

Hemperor was right. I feel like it's worth reconsidering that little Razor checkbox that allows Razor to talk with the server and negotiate what features of Razor are used with the shard.

At this point, most folks who've been around UOSA a while are well aware of some instances in which Razor allows some things to be done which just plain weren't done in 1999 (steal by type, etc).

Of course, this requires discussion on what could and couldn't be done in 1999, in order to configure these Razor settings. And, a good sense of who currently does and does not use Razor to connect (there's one prominent red-named fellow in the forum who I believe doesn't).

But at this point, I feel like it might be in the best interests of the shard.

EDIT: For reference, Derrick's stance on Razor:

To the other issues which generally involve policy such as Razor, Light Filters, accounts per person...

These are very hot subjects but here's the facts as I see them:
1) Razor is the only program that we have available that comes close to what UOA was in era, a legitimate and common helper app that I and everyone I know used.
2) Some features from Razor such as light filtering was only available in 1999 in other third party apps which OSI/EA forbid.
3) To restrict Razor features, you must require Razor to connect to the shard.
4) I don't use Razor, and do not want to be forced to use Razor.
5) Forcing Razor is not era accurate.
6) Razor causes my client to hang up.
Until we have a better solution we are stuck with Razor. I am not a fan of the light filter. I spent days of development in the last patch fixing nightsight to be accurate and most will never see those changes.

Discuss!

EDITED to add Derrick's points.

Here's the source to UOExtreme this program was around in 98 and early 99.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1YEgO ... sp=sharing

Now you have the source to a program which was available in T2A that is on par or better than UOA was in era in fact I have a bit of evidence of that backs my claims up even.

UO Extreme - Currently the best (and still illegal) 3rd party utility for UO.
http://www.wtfman.com/uoevil/files.htm

Enjoy make good use of it you were 100% right though Razor is not era accurate neither preT2A nor T2A.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Zombie thread does not die