Reagents?

[Ardos]

All redacted someone had a great point, I do remember it being quite difficult in this era and in the interest of getting it 100% accurate this probably was a wise change all though I prefer it stayed the old way to make it easier.

[corruption42]

I don't remember at all when regs changed to doubling after buying but if it was prior to the "cut off" date of our targeted era accuracy I suggest we change it back.

Vendor restock was never accurate when doubling; OSI's system for vendor stocks/gold purse availibility/etc were far more complex than has ever existed in RunUO, even now. The previous system was simply 100% inaccurate, and never existed in OSI. It now replicates the function of the OSI model, but not the actual underlying system, as the total system is far more complex than on a per-vendor basis.

Regardless, with an hours time and recalling to all 37 vendors for regs around the server, and using a buy agent (NOT a macro, simply assisted bulk purchasing), getting a stock of regs is nowhere near as complex as people are making it out to be. They're, at best, recalling to mage shops only and ignoring herbalists and alchemists; or checking 2 or 3 cities and determining instantly that "ALL regs are sold out, the bots must have bought them." This is simply not the case, and it is overblown to a level of high school dramatics.

[JBURNS]

....So set up a buy agent as well. Use the same tools available to you. It requires making no macro, nor automation. Add the items to a buy agent, set the amount you want to buy, and go. You'll buy them just as fast as they do; and using the tools available to you to do things more efficiently is absolutely era accurate. Quit nerfing your own ability to buy them and its easy to get them.

I started reg shopping instead of buying from player vendors and I recall to each one in alphabetical order. In ONE day I was able to get 5k each reg and it was less than 6 hours. So I no longer will complain about this.

^ this. Its really not as difficult as people make it out to be; I find them consistently. Usually in Brit and Moonglow too; they should always be sold out 24/7 by this logic, no?

[/quote]

You can set up a buy agent and do it y ourself...provided you time the restocks better then anyone else who is also trying to buy regs. The whole point of this post wasn't to say you can't buy regs...just that it is too difficult especially for newer players. It is scripted era accurately but in practice acts way different. The server is about era accuracy so should this not be discussed? And the fact that Menk found 5k of each reg and it took him 6 hours only reinforces my point. 6hrs of doing nothing but buying regs manually is possible and you can get regs that way but how many new players can you honestly say would go through that much trouble? 5k of regs would honestly last me about two weeks maximum. By that logic I should spend atleast 12-15 hours a month doing nothing but buying regs. I am not saying it should go back to the old way either...there shold be a happy medium. I agree that it was 100% inaccurate but at least it was possible for new players to get regs...now we are only 50% inaccurate and unless you devote hours of time to gathering regs you are going to have a hard time finding them.

[corruption42]

You can set up a buy agent and do it y ourself...provided you time the restocks better then anyone else who is also trying to buy regs. The whole point of this post wasn't to say you can't buy regs...just that it is too difficult especially for newer players. It is scripted era accurately but in practice acts way different. The server is about era accuracy so should this not be discussed? And the fact that Menk found 5k of each reg and it took him 6 hours only reinforces my point. 6hrs of doing nothing but buying regs manually is possible and you can get regs that way but how many new players can you honestly say would go through that much trouble? 5k of regs would honestly last me about two weeks maximum. By that logic I should spend atleast 12-15 hours a month doing nothing but buying regs. Era Accurate?

Yes, actually, I remember very well not being able to regularly find regs on NPC's on OSI -- it amazes me that everyone acts like there was always hundreds upon hundreds on all the vendors back then too, and its simply not true. I do recall surface spawns of regs being FAR higher than they are here; but the NPC's are exactly as I remember them; usually not buying what you're selling at full price due to other sellers, and usually missing key items because of other buyers. Thats part of the nature of playing a multiplayer online world, you are never the only one utilizing the resources.

Menk's point was the crux of the issue; people expect things to be handed to them to some extent -- they want simple and reliable. Thats not, and never has been, the nature of UO. If you don't want to buy regs from player vendors -- and there are plenty of player vendors that don't upcharge like crazy -- then you have to spend the time to gather them. This is no different than working as a crafter; either you gather your resources, or you buy them at a premium. Which is more worth your time?

[JBURNS]

You can set up a buy agent and do it y ourself...provided you time the restocks better then anyone else who is also trying to buy regs. The whole point of this post wasn't to say you can't buy regs...just that it is too difficult especially for newer players. It is scripted era accurately but in practice acts way different. The server is about era accuracy so should this not be discussed? And the fact that Menk found 5k of each reg and it took him 6 hours only reinforces my point. 6hrs of doing nothing but buying regs manually is possible and you can get regs that way but how many new players can you honestly say would go through that much trouble? 5k of regs would honestly last me about two weeks maximum. By that logic I should spend atleast 12-15 hours a month doing nothing but buying regs. Era Accurate?

Yes, actually, I remember very well not being able to regularly find regs on NPC's on OSI -- it amazes me that everyone acts like there was always hundreds upon hundreds on all the vendors back then too, and its simply not true. I do recall surface spawns of regs being FAR higher than they are here; but the NPC's are exactly as I remember them; usually not buying what you're selling at full price due to other sellers, and usually missing key items because of other buyers. Thats part of the nature of playing a multiplayer online world, you are never the only one utilizing the resources.

Menk's point was the crux of the issue; people expect things to be handed to them to some extent -- they want simple and reliable. Thats not, and never has been, the nature of UO. If you don't want to buy regs from player vendors -- and there are plenty of player vendors that don't upcharge like crazy -- then you have to spend the time to gather them. This is no different than working as a crafter; either you gather your resources, or you buy them at a premium. Which is more worth your time?

This has nothing to do with expecting a handout or wanting simple and reliable mechanics...UO is a challenging game that doesn't hold your hand. I think thats why a lot of people actually play here but what I am trying to say is you can't take the same formula from vendors OSI in 97-98 and implement it here and expect it to work the same way...the economy, playerbase, and resources available are so different that it ends up being extremly inaccurate. I am not saying change it back to the way it was but I am saying that they got the balance wrong. You should have to wait to buy regs sometimes (like on osi) but you should eventually be able to find enough to go out. And you will...eventually. They adjusted it to be more era accurate, but they adjusted it too far

[The oOo]

Meh...

I've got to go with JBURNS with the caveat that Era accuracy does not mean a particular system was working properly at the time either.

Given that their actual server load/pop. far exceeded their initial expectations AND build...yea, the restocking wasn't really an issue back then...Population compensated for the deficiencies inherent within that system at the time, had it been operating at their expected capacity.

I see the regent restocking system here as functioning [deficiently] as it would have had their server load only met expectations at the time. In which case, it would have been adjusted accordingly given the time.

That all being said [and IMHO of course]...it is one thing to have the regent stocks high from regent buyers camping them...and anyone else having an equal chance to purchase them [as JBURNS said...whoever was fastest back in the day...] it is an entirely different matter with RAZOR as it is all too common to be clicking in reg lists raising your order and someone appears, says "vendor buy" and before you have any time to react all of the regents are gone along with the other player...it seems to only take a few seconds...

Very Frustrating...

oOo

....So set up a buy agent as well. Use the same tools available to you. It requires making no macro, nor automation. Add the items to a buy agent, set the amount you want to buy, and go. You'll buy them just as fast as they do; and using the tools available to you to do things more efficiently is absolutely era accurate. Quit nerfing your own ability to buy them and its easy to get them.

I'm sorry you misunderstood me...I wasn't really complaining...there are a lot of things that are frustrating in this game...I was simply agreeing with JBURNS and offering my own thoughts to his statements regarding mechanics...

Regents are a resource, like ore, logs, wool, feathers, etc...but people dont complain about not being able to instantly, on-demand mine as much ore or chop as much wood as they want...it's just accepted as 'it is what it is" when those resources don't deliver as fast as one wants...

I don't understand why people expect to be able to gather as many regents as they want, any time they want by instantly recalling around and buying them on-demand...[not referring to the afk buyers here...] You can not do this with any other major resource, and you shouldn't be able to do it with regents...as you said, corruption...I could set up a buy agent and all that...Instead, I choose to accept an empty vendor as being 'what it is' at the moment...

If not for those afk buyers I wouldn't be able to buy 100's of regs at a time because I don't want to spend my game time doing what they do...if the cost of that is that I have to wait my turn occasionally so be it...

it's been a slow day...

[corruption42]

This has nothing to do with expecting a handout or wanting simple and reliable mechanics...UO is a challenging game that doesn't hold your hand. I think thats why a lot of people actually play here but what I am trying to say is you can't take the same formula from vendors OSI in 97-98 and implement it here and expect it to work the same way...the economy, playerbase, and resources available are so different that it ends up being extremly inaccurate. I am not saying change it back to the way it was but I am saying that they got the balance wrong. You should have to wait to buy regs sometimes (like on osi) but you should eventually be able to find enough to go out. And you will...eventually. They adjusted it to be more era accurate and it is, but they adjusted it too far

You're simply wrong, on all points. There's one goal for this shard: complete mechanical accuracy for the T2A era. Anything that is further from that, is not in line with that goal. This goal does not take into account player experience, and it should not; player experience is a function of the players within the confines of the mechanics. This system, regardless of your opinion of being too far, is simply closer to accurate than the previous system. A side effect of that, is something that in my opinion makes the experience much more like it was in era -- I for one ALWAYS had a hard time buying regs on OSI from NPC's.

This is straying from the point though. The balance, as you put it, simply does not exist. The way it works now makes things far more accurate both in experience, and in code, to what T2A had. The fact that its a free shard, and as a side effect, vendors are not being bought out every single hour and thus the available totals seem artificially low, do not change the fact that this is more accurate than what you are suggesting, and anything less than a move towards 100% accuracy is not in line with the goals.

By the way, no one said this can't be discussed -- but it needs to be discussed reasonably AND, more importantly, within the realm of the mission statement of the shard. Anything that detracts from that goal, is simply wasting time and energy.

[corruption42]

I'm sorry you misunderstood me...I wasn't really complaining...there are a lot of things that are frustrating in this game...I was simply agreeing with JBURNS and offering my own thoughts to his statements regarding mechanics...

Regents are a resource, like ore, logs, wool, feathers, etc...but people dont complain about not being able to instantly, on-demand mine as much ore or chop as much wood as they want...it's just accepted as 'it is what it is" when those resources don't deliver as fast as one wants...

I don't understand why people expect to be able to gather as many regents as they want, any time they want by instantly recalling around and buying them on-demand...[not referring to the afk buyers here...] You can not do this with any other major resource, and you shouldn't be able to do it with regents...as you said, corruption...I could set up a buy agent and all that...Instead, I choose to accept an empty vendor as being 'what it is' at the moment...

If not for those afk buyers I wouldn't be able to buy 100's of regs at a time because I don't want to spend my game time doing what they do...if the cost of that is that I have to wait my turn occasionally so be it...

it's been a slow day...

You are absolutely correct, I misunderstood you. My apologies for that.

My point remains the same -- but it pretty much looks like we're making the same point