I know I shouldn't ask, but...

[Light Shade]

Actually play the game, instead of macroing. Problem solved.

So you didn't macro to raise any of your skills? All of your skill points come from actual live game play?

Are you trying to imply that this has anything to do with you not educating yourself on how to be safe while macroing? Take some responsibility for your own actions and LACK of knowledge. Better yet, ask people to explain to you how to protect yourself.

I'll be the first to agree that the LoS needs to be changed, but the Dev Team has very clearly stated that it is here to stay....so you need to learn how to deal with it. Complaining about people killing you using mechanics that have been ruled upon by the Staff only encourages people to kill you more. All this other muckery is a waste of time.

Ask questions. Learn the in's and out's. Learn how to not be a victim.

I'm not trying to be mean. I just see you pissing into the wind instead of learning to piss downwind.

[Gafron]

This post is hilarious.. Killiing afk people with not loot is definitely griefing.. no benefit really right?

The fact that he posted here proves it worked. Whoever made him rage just won uo.

I'm not at all raging and although I have had toons killed while afk macroing for skill gain, this post wasn't created as a direct result of one of those. Its actually been a while since my last grief death. I played UO from shortly after release thru just before UO:R so I am fully aware of the wild west nature of the game. I don't get upset by griefers or I would not be on this type of server. And in reality, griefing isn't as big a problem on this shard as it was on OSI because the server pop is so low we all have more territory. Less population density means less conflict.

I just have never been able to understand the mentality of griefers and continue to be fascinated by them. UO was a wonderful, albeit unintentional, social experiment. On OSI I would actually spend hours running around as a ghost to observe others' behavior and while I saw lots of grief play, I was never able to get any answer to why people did grief except for rationalizations that did not hold up and the "it's fun" answer. I'm just still trying to figure out if there is more to it than the emotional high of personality disorder types or if that's all it is really.

[Gafron]

Are you trying to imply that this has anything to do with you not educating yourself on how to be safe while macroing? Take some responsibility for your own actions and LACK of knowledge. Better yet, ask people to explain to you how to protect yourself.

I'll be the first to agree that the LoS needs to be changed, but the Dev Team has very clearly stated that it is here to stay....so you need to learn how to deal with it. Complaining about people killing you using mechanics that have been ruled upon by the Staff only encourages people to kill you more. All this other muckery is a waste of time.

Ask questions. Learn the in's and out's. Learn how to not be a victim.

I'm not trying to be mean. I just see you pissing into the wind instead of learning to piss downwind.

LS, I'm not complaining and I'm not worried about being griefed. I couldn't care less if they made changes to fix the LoS bug or any other bug which allows others to grief. I'm just trying to understand why griefers grief.

[Light Shade]

Are you trying to imply that this has anything to do with you not educating yourself on how to be safe while macroing? Take some responsibility for your own actions and LACK of knowledge. Better yet, ask people to explain to you how to protect yourself.

I'll be the first to agree that the LoS needs to be changed, but the Dev Team has very clearly stated that it is here to stay....so you need to learn how to deal with it. Complaining about people killing you using mechanics that have been ruled upon by the Staff only encourages people to kill you more. All this other muckery is a waste of time.

Ask questions. Learn the in's and out's. Learn how to not be a victim.

I'm not trying to be mean. I just see you pissing into the wind instead of learning to piss downwind.

LS, I'm not complaining and I'm not worried about being griefed. I couldn't care less if they made changes to fix the LoS bug or any other bug which allows others to grief. I'm just trying to understand why griefers grief.

Well, I wouldn't consider killing someone AFK griefing, personally. Its just part of the game. Good vs. Evil. Just because someone plays the Evil character does NOT make them a griefer. The 'way' they play that character could constitute griefing, but this is a game. Its a game where people kill people.

Killing is NOT griefing in my opinion.

Trash-talking and rez killing someone and cursing their ancestors back to the time of creation might be griefing, though.

[Blaise]

Causing unjust negative impact on others in game = griefing.
It's not binary, it's a rainbow.

If they had it coming, because they're a prick or whatever, that's just payback.


Also, posting forum threads asking why people are griefing jerks, is definitely a clear indicator that you have been griefed, successfully.
The point of most grief is to cause anguish and make people lash out. Verbally is usually the only way they can because they just got killed/etc.
You made an entire thread to question WHY they do it, in effect proving they succeded on you. Laugh it off, learn to cope and practice better safety in game, and you win, not them.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Causing unjust negative impact on others in game = griefing.
If they had it coming, because they're a prick or whatever, that's just payback.

This is the only other reason besides generating aggro on the field to kill an afker. Taking items may be justified, so make a thief...get a little pack horse name him atm and thats that.

I want to have more people play here not less. I dont throw a fit if I die in town afk. I have a house its just sometimes its boring macroing in house so I sometimes do it in town and I check back periodically to see whats happening. I never leave anything on my body that is needed. I myself dont get angry because I am not afk for long.

Its the new guys, you should cut them a break. And like I said even if it were a red that was afk I would not kill them unless of course it was someone who has a reputation and is a vet that should have known better and even then never in their house. I set some moral boundaries for myself primarily because I don't want to be involved in any one's poke war.

Because in truth it's not that fun to kill people afk. (unless they are infringing on rules)

[Blaise]

Personally, I'm not even a PK, although I have before. I don't like making a negative impact on others' gaming experience. That's just how I play. I know I am the good balancing out the evil of people who play solely to make others rage (see chumbucket's posts in his 5 year thread).
Some people just live to make others rage-quit. It is victory for them in some morbid sense. I understand it, I just don't agree with or ascribe to it.

[Loathed]

pking is not griefing or everyone would say, hey man a Griefer attacked me today in destard. Or hey, wanna go on a grief run? Grief- is to cause pain/suffering w/out gain- If i'm gaining loot from killing a player it's not grief it's mechanics

[Blaise]

pking is not griefing or everyone would say, hey man a Griefer attacked me today in destard. Or hey, wanna go on a grief run? Grief- is to cause pain/suffering w/out gain- If i'm gaining loot from killing a player it's not grief it's mechanics

Define it how you wish, but in my opinion, and many others, grief is undue negative impact on another player.

Yes, even within the rules of the game. Stealing, PKing, looting, etc, is all grief. It's totally legit and I'm not ever going to say it shouldn't exist. I just won't be a part of it unless it's re-griefing the original griefer.

[Boondock_Saint]

I would agree, pking is not griefing.. In pking people are gaining in loot.. AFK killing typically doesn't get you loot.

[archaicsubrosa77]

pking is not griefing or everyone would say, hey man a Griefer attacked me today in destard. Or hey, wanna go on a grief run? Grief- is to cause pain/suffering w/out gain- If i'm gaining loot from killing a player it's not grief it's mechanics

Define it how you wish, but in my opinion, and many others, grief is undue negative impact on another player.

Yes, even within the rules of the game. Stealing, PKing, looting, etc, is all grief. It's totally legit and I'm not ever going to say it shouldn't exist. I just won't be a part of it unless it's re-griefing the original griefer.

Okay I have to argue here. Combat and thievery makes the game what it is. I can fight and lose a hundred times and have everything looted and my mount eaten in front of my face and I would be laughing at my own defeat. That's totally different. Keeping people from going out and having at least some equal footing on the field to me is counter productive to this community however.

I even got in the habit of raising some skills the old fashioned way when I have time. My people are not complete Sims And you know newbies are forced to do just that.

As far as I am concerned out of town, you are ready to play...inside of town I may rob you but I wont kill you if you are afk. It was funny to see others do it at first but as time wore on it started to get old...unless you know very well they are vets and have completed several characters already I would leave them alone.

[Loathed]

pking is not griefing or everyone would say, hey man a Griefer attacked me today in destard. Or hey, wanna go on a grief run? Grief- is to cause pain/suffering w/out gain- If i'm gaining loot from killing a player it's not grief it's mechanics

Define it how you wish, but in my opinion, and many others, grief is undue negative impact on another player.

Yes, even within the rules of the game. Stealing, PKing, looting, etc, is all grief. It's totally legit and I'm not ever going to say it shouldn't exist. I just won't be a part of it unless it's re-griefing the original griefer.

this is exactly what IPY 1 & 2 thought and they actually took it a step further and tried to police it, i mean c'mon recast timer on stonewall? >_<

[Blaise]

I don't know wtf you guys are talking about. I love getting killed and stolen from. Crime makes the game go around to me. I still define negative impacts on other players as grief. Not to the extent of carpet bombing or LoS killing you while AFK, but grief non-the-less.
UO was designed with the ability to cause GRIEF to others. If you want to call it something else to sleep at night, that's fine. It's still grief to me and all the other newbies getting pwned by vets and others.


Not saying it's completely wrong or should not exist. Just making clear my definition of the term, as I see and understand it.


Cheers.

[Loathed]

I hear you, i'm just saying your opinion of the term grief is incorrect from standard mmo terms. Hey- i didn't make it up, it's just how it is.

[Range]

What the "griefers" don't seem to understand is that by killing new players repeatedly while AFK causes them to leave the server. I know I don't have all day to play and AFK macroing allows me to gain some skill. If I had been killed over and over I would have left the game. It would be no fun. UO requires a population of players not just multiple accounts but people doing stuff. Well, you cant do a whole lot of fun stuff as a low level type unless you like hunting near guard zones and/or manufacturing stuff.