Regardless of era accuract balancing for dexxers needed

[Uber]

Whom it may concern,

I have tested out every type of dexxer and stat spread both with GM and Vanq weapons. Tried dexxer hally dexxer spear dexxer macer and I am sad to say this is not era accurate at all. It was not so hard for dexxers to get kills in T2A as swing on move was enabled and Vanqs in t2a hit WAY WAY WAY Harder. You even have mistakes with your weapons here being one handed vs two handed. The heavy mace was a 2handed weapon in T2A but it is a one hander here. This list is quite long for the inaccuracies of actual damages rates from the vanq weapons. The vanq standard bow here is a joke in terms of damage. Archery was a viable skill in T2A here is laughable at best. A dexxer with 100 dex and a vanq hally would one hit one kill people in t2a if they had less than 85 HP. Fact. In short I think the server would be far more populated if people weren't all forced to play a Hally mage. I do enjoy my hally mage but I like diversity as well. Fix dexxers please.

[Mens Rea]

I like your passion for the game but you really need to provide evidence to support these claims.

"Swing on the move" is enabled right now by the way.

The "heavy mace" was not one handed.

A vanq +25 tactics hally on a 100 tactics 100 anat dexer could probably do the damage you refer to.

In late T2A archery was nerfed into a dump skill.

I've been playing a dexer lately, it's very viable - you just need to have the right equipment (as with dexers in T2A) and be skillful (as with dexers in T2A).

[Ronk]

I like your passion for the game but you really need to provide evidence to support these claims.

"Swing on the move" is enabled right now by the way.

The "heavy mace" was not one handed.

A vanq +25 tactics hally on a 100 tactics 100 anat dexer could probably do the damage you refer to.

In late T2A archery was nerfed into a dump skill.

I've been playing a dexer lately, it's very viable - you just need to have the right equipment (as with dexers in T2A) and be skillful (as with dexers in T2A).

I agree he needs to provide evidence (Granted a lot has been posted elsewhere) but your claim that dexxers in T2A had to have the 'right equipment' is wrong. Drug'gar was one of two orcs to ever get the 'Butcher' title and he never used much more than a few bandages and a non-magic weapon. In some cases he used a noob weapon cause then he couldn't lose it if he died. He got the butcher title because he was one of those 'gods' at pvp, to the point where when he showed up people left.

Now granted...it was a long time ago and during that era not everything was known about UO but you made the claim 'as with dexers in T2A'. In addition, im sure Drug has become a bit of a legend and some of the stories may be exaggerated, I dunno. But regardless, my main point is that in the real T2A era and on through UO:R...dexxers never needed to be decked out in magic gear, reflect jewelry, etc. (Of course, maybe thats not what you meant by 'right equipment')

Recall the number of times, 'no skill dex monkey' were thrown about. On UOSA, dexxing def takes some skill...which is either pointing to a huge inaccuracy (somewhere) or its merely the fact that everyone has macros and knows the game inside/out.

[Mens Rea]

The 'right equipment' in Drug's case was probably a T1 connection when everyone else had 56k. It's becoming something of a cliche.

The right equipment:

A half decent force> weapon - with high tactics + choose your weapon type wisely
Bandages - and knowing when to use them and how to keep cycling them.
LOTS of Potions - of all kinds - and know when you use them.
GM Armor - 30 ar is fine.
Magery - and knowing when to use it.
LOTS of trapped pouches - and knowing when to use them.
Poisoned weapons for those who enjoy them.
A horse.

If you can't fight a viable fight with a dexer with the above items then something is wrong with you. You might even want to try the below items because you suck -

Optional items such as invis/reflect/tele/magic armor.
Magic armor.
Ganking and crying on the forums.

[Ronk]

The 'right equipment' in Drug's case was probably a T1 connection when everyone else had 56k. It's becoming something of a cliche.

Ill have to look up the post to confirm but im fairly sure he was on a 56k until UO:Rish, then he finally upgraded to cable modem. I know for sure he didn't have a T1. I think its half that there were more noobs and half that in the real T2A an enemy couldn't just walk away from you and avoid ever getting hit.

[Antonio Giovanni]

Ronk alot of what you're saying is true man. Some of the era inaccuracies listed arent fact. But the way this server has them setup aren't era accurate anyway you look at it. I was in one of the best PvP guild on Lake Superior. The Giovanni Connection. We were all pure dexxers and we did just fine. Infact we dominated. As far as having all of the items mens rea is listing thats insane. I have a Hally Mage but my bread and butter has always been PvPing as a dexxer. I like it more and it appeals to alot of others as well.

As far as a dexxer on this server you don't need 50 items and magic armor to compete. I compete very will with only Trapped pouches, refresh pots and cure pots. ofcourse I roll with a power or vanq hally with the standard bandages. Thats all you really need to win and if you can't win with that then you're not a very skilled dexxer. As Ronk was also saying it does take more skill then people realize.

I have a Hide/Swords Dexxer and as I was saying I do great. As long as a mage can't posion or Para me im generally making them run and heal etc... the times they make me run a get enough distance away and hide finish my heal and start the process over again. Call me weak or whatever but its a skill in the game I use and it works. You find me and try to reveal? Thats fine I'll run when you cast and hide again until my heals done. It's no different then Para explo combo mages like to use on dexxers without traps. Or Para dumping on a dexxer or the famous mage recall out crap.

If this server actually 100% completely balanced dexxers out it would be a sad day for your average tank mage. Good ones could still compete sure but the roles would be reversed which is why I don't think it will happen. This server was built for mages period.

Throw in all the stuff mens rea said to have and you should be massacring people. But you have to have the money to buy alot of that and it is expensive.

But PvP is always alot more fun when it is balanced. The tank mage trio vs the tank mage trio gets old. When you have effective archers, and dexxers and a mage mix its so much more fun and overall better for the server.

But maybe Ronk or Mens Rea could answer a couple questions for me?

1. What is the difference in time for a 45 dex hally mage and a 100 dex dexxer when swinging their hallys?
2. How fast do you cast Gheal as compared to a Kryss or Katana swing?

Also as far as other era inaccuracies I have seen listed by other players:

1. 60 drags for 1 tamer- Never happened.
2. PK's racking up 1100 kills lol <-----? On OSI T2A that would be a wasted character. People actually played and ran the risk of losing their skills without razor to macro them up. The I don't care effect because of a 3rd party program and unattended macroing makes this inaccurate.
3. Events/Silver for rewards
4. I can't remember but weren't their young player tickets? You could use to get certain items aka ranger armor etc...
5. Even with the clean up Brittania compaign neon hair was tough to get for the amount of players on this server I have seen to many people with it.
6. Was Uo assist like razor? I don't remember it being this good. Razor is inaccurate.
7. Unattended macroing. ( I guess people wouldn't play here if they had to actually earn their skills would they?)

I could probably list others but if we are going to nit pick about era accuracy then lets nit pick. If you claim era accurate then be era accurate. Just because something was around during the era doesn't mean make it available here. Unless you yourself ran a campaign etc...

If you think im wrong good for you. Im open so fire away.

[Malaikat]

I ran unattended macros all the time in era. EZ Macros ftw!

Never had any GM trouble.

[Antonio Giovanni]

I ran unattended macros all the time in era. EZ Macros ftw!

Never had any GM trouble.

Lol well if you'd have been caught banned. I can be accused of doing a few things myself. For example for hiding i'd setup use key F1 and throw a paper weight on it. However people were banned for unattended macroing and 3rd party progams.

Like I said Inaccurate.

[Ronk]

I ran unattended macros all the time in era. EZ Macros ftw!

Never had any GM trouble.

Ah, EZ Macro. I used that. I had like 10-20 crates full of weapons and recorded a macro of be armsloring one after another..then looped it to get GM. THis was in the UO:R where armslore let you disarm.

If this server actually 100% completely balanced dexxers out it would be a sad day for your average tank mage. Good ones could still compete sure but the roles would be reversed which is why I don't think it will happen. This server was built for mages period.

Yup, and this was how it was in Era...hence why dexxers were called no skill dex monkeys. Granted it did take skill, it was easier when it came to fighting unskilled players I think.

1. What is the difference in time for a 45 dex hally mage and a 100 dex dexxer when swinging their hallys?
2. How fast do you cast Gheal as compared to a Kryss or Katana swing?

I can't speak on hallys, ive never used one. As far as kryss, i used this almost exclusively in the real T2A and on through UO:R. If you stuck and didn't get a bunch of wiffs in a row, you could certainly disrupt gheals. Though two misses in a row and they could get one (or a recall) off. This is also why, often times, I switched to dagger. Dagger was faster than a kryss and unless you had a run of bad luck the dagger would disrupt level 4 spells and up.

[Antonio Giovanni]

Thanks Ronk and I just wanted to basically point out that a dexxer with skill can compete here as is. But as far as era accurate this server seems to pick and choose. I haven't noticed all of them which is why I listed some I have read. I do know that the best part of this game for me is the PvP. And balancing PvP would be great for the server. Does anyone remember the old 30-40 players battles between chaos and order guilds that would be setup and organzied? It was much like the way the URKs are setup. You had your Archers popping dudes, warriors chasing people around mages finishing people off or going crazy with summons and fields. I want PvP like that again.

Like I said the tank mage on tank mage thing is getting old. Even if I were to just sit and watch it I would get bored. Not enough diversity. The most fun I have had PvPing here so far was the other night. I had my dexxer on and their were a mage, a tank mage and another dexxer with me. We were fighting the Urks near compassion and it was mixed. best time I have had to date here. The Urks had a couple mages, 2-3 dexxers an archer as well. Mixxed PvP. Was great!

[Ronk]

Thanks Ronk and I just wanted to basically point out that a dexxer with skill can compete here as is. But as far as era accurate this server seems to pick and choose. I haven't noticed all of them which is why I listed some I have read. I do know that the best part of this game for me is the PvP. And balancing PvP would be great for the server. Does anyone remember the old 30-40 players battles between chaos and order guilds that would be setup and organzied? It was much like the way the URKs are setup. You had your Archers popping dudes, warriors chasing people around mages finishing people off or going crazy with summons and fields. I want PvP like that again.

Like I said the tank mage on tank mage thing is getting old. Even if I were to just sit and watch it I would get bored. Not enough diversity. The most fun I have had PvPing here so far was the other night. I had my dexxer on and their were a mage, a tank mage and another dexxer with me. We were fighting the Urks near compassion and it was mixed. best time I have had to date here. The Urks had a couple mages, 2-3 dexxers an archer as well. Mixxed PvP. Was great!

Yeah, we are def competitive here. Lately too, due to a bug, attack on the run was readded. The problem comes up in some cases where a mage can just walk and never get hit (Due to a bug? I dunno). Among some other things. Also, without magical weapons, it can be nearly impossible to get a killing blow with mini heal the way it is. Which again, in the real T2A I never saw people spamming mini heal...then again, maybe people were just bigger noobs then, I dunno.

Glad ya had fun, thats what the orcs are here for

[tanmits]

Lately too, due to a bug, attack on the run was readded. The problem comes up in some cases where a mage can just walk and never get hit (Due to a bug? I dunno).

THIS! And it's not just lately. This has been around forever. All a mounted mage has to do is trot in random Ls and the client prediction code (or something) borks up where they are, causing them to blip somewhere randomly, allowing trotting and minihealing all the way to full health possible without leaving the screen. Unless you're damned good at predicting where the person will go, even if they're next to you on your screen you won't swing because the server has them in a different position that it has not yet sent to you. It's very annoying and makes killing blows almost impossible against people who know how to do it. Unfortunately, there may be no easy fix for this due to it being client side.