R.I.P. Thieving (TERRIBLE change) Warning to 56k users

[Slade]

Auto-death screen cap kept turning itself off somehow, but here's a few of the poor souls who decided to mess with the Cleveland.

There are dozens more but I didnt feel like uploading everything. It would also be nice if the auto-screenshot would somehow catch the names of all these people who died, but we can't have it all.

And for people bitching about thieves being pussy characters that won't leave town. Take note that many of these screenshots were taken OUT of town. I have dozens more that I might upload later that also are taken OUT of town.

I obtained all my best loot outside of town where the mages thought they had the edge. You don't have the edge, my friends. I'm just better than you.

It may not be the most efficient way to make money, but let me tell you it sure was fun.

[mrbojangles]

terrible change indeed.

[Mens Rea]

Thing is though, if you run away for 2 mins then come back perma then you can still do the exact same thing.

[egamretsam]

What changes were made to stealing? I haven't been here for a while, please fill me in ;]

[Hemperor]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

cry more

It was a noob template with no spell damage in town. It was inaccurate. They only way to fight back was to leave yourself open to the rest of your shit being stolen, anyone and their retarded grandmother can play that.

I guess we won't be seeing muhc of slade anymore, since he cant field or anything.

This topic has been changed to a "GOOD BYE SLADE" topic

bye

[Kaivan]

Not to poke and prod at an issue which has been discussed already, but I think it's worth mentioning: Stealing becoming an aggressive in the same patch that created the thieves guild. In this respect, we can't have only half of the intended system if we aim to stay accurate, which is exactly what we intend to do. So, while it may not be a favorable patch for thieves, it is a necessary patch, because the thieves guild and aggressive stealing are linked at the hip.

[DrFaustus]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

cry more

It was a noob template with no spell damage in town. It was inaccurate. They only way to fight back was to leave yourself open to the rest of your shit being stolen, anyone and their retarded grandmother can play that.

I guess we won't be seeing muhc of slade anymore, since he cant field or anything.

This topic has been changed to a "GOOD BYE SLADE" topic

bye

Such a putz.

[Slade]

Not to poke and prod at an issue which has been discussed already, but I think it's worth mentioning: Stealing becoming an aggressive in the same patch that created the thieves guild. In this respect, we can't have only half of the intended system if we aim to stay accurate, which is exactly what we intend to do. So, while it may not be a favorable patch for thieves, it is a necessary patch, because the thieves guild and aggressive stealing are linked at the hip.

I fail to see how this is an issue whatsoever.

So then get rid of the thieves guild. Problem solved, thieving accurate.

[Slade]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

cry more

It was a noob template with no spell damage in town. It was inaccurate. They only way to fight back was to leave yourself open to the rest of your shit being stolen, anyone and their retarded grandmother can play that.

I guess we won't be seeing muhc of slade anymore, since he cant field or anything.

This topic has been changed to a "GOOD BYE SLADE" topic

bye

When I fight you in the field on a tank mage, this is what I get. In the first picture, you took ONE hally hit and ran back in the house with "I ban thee" up hoping to ban me.

The second picture is actually the 3rd or 4th time you ran crying into your house after getting owned when you came out to play.

You're basically just pathetic, Hemperor.

[Kaivan]

Not to poke and prod at an issue which has been discussed already, but I think it's worth mentioning: Stealing becoming an aggressive in the same patch that created the thieves guild. In this respect, we can't have only half of the intended system if we aim to stay accurate, which is exactly what we intend to do. So, while it may not be a favorable patch for thieves, it is a necessary patch, because the thieves guild and aggressive stealing are linked at the hip.

I fail to see how this is an issue whatsoever.

So then get rid of the thieves guild. Problem solved, thieving accurate.

I wouldn't say that being rid of the thieves guild is an option for several reasons:

1. The thieves guild existed for the majority of T2A. The time where the thieves guild did not exist was only 3-4 months, depending on which release date for T2A you follow. On the other hand, the thieves guild did exist for a full 14 months of T2A. In that respect, the majority of T2A was dominated by the existence of the thieves guild, and as such we have it here.
2. If we were to remove the thieves guild because some people didn't like the full implications of the guild itself, we would also have to consider removing meditation, anatomy bonus, dexterity based swings, long term murder counts, stealthing, remove trap, functionality for detecting hidden, insta-hit, all fishing and carpentry additions and updates, and essentially every change after February 24, 1999 (and possibly some from the February 2, 1999 update), despite the fact that most of those changes were in place for the majority of T2A.

I don't know if this illustrates my point, but the reality is that it is unjustifiable to simply ignore the thieves guild while accepting all of the other changes that were done at the time. It sets a precedence that we support one particular play style over another, which is absolutely not the case.

[aXe]

i enjoyed the SS"s slade

[Slade]

I don't know if this illustrates my point, but the reality is that it is unjustifiable to simply ignore the thieves guild while accepting all of the other changes that were done at the time. It sets a precedence that we support one particular play style over another, which is absolutely not the case.

Meditation and anatomy bonuses weren't implemented in order to give in to the whiny bitches who couldn't handle the thieves in Britain by locking their damned containers, ultimately leading to the implementation of Trammel. I'd call that sufficient justification for cherrypicking the change out from the rest.

It's fine. I'm over it. It wouldn't be an T2A server without the retarded carebear changes that were implemented during the era leading up to trammel. It's interesting that you even replicated the feeling of disgust that I had in 1999 when this change was made originally. Talk about accuracy.

This was still a terrible decision.

[Murugan]

I like how the biggest whiner in the post was Hemperor . . the all mighty . . . yet he thinks he is above so many other players, He has been picked on, raped and even murdered throughout his UO career. EVERYTHING he had outside of his banks has been taken from him, including his dignity. He claims he will 1 v1 ANYONE ANYWHERE, and yet even in the comfort of his own house, he can not hold his own. ANYONE who gets CHAIN LIGHTNING casted on them twice, would know that the player is most likely out of mana, and even so, Hemperor and his paragank style of play still couldn't dent Insolence's health bar. From the screen shots, and the fact that Im the one who Gave Slade the rune, I know that at this time there was one else there. So Hemperor, you have a LOT of rebuilding to do on your Reputation before you can start making call outs again . . . and BTW 100 event wins in a row will not do that, leave the house . . . If Hemperor could mark his rune on his steps he would, cause as soon as he recalls home, he rushes inside.

Hemperor, the lamest player in UOSA history!

[Murugan]

What gives with these gimpy changes? I loot a shit ton of houses, something I did a lot on OSI . . .Then they blessed keys and house deeds . . . So when are we changing to that? If you guys want to run a server filled with stupid people who are safe to carry the entire wealth on them, well go for it .. ill be no part of it. I accept CBD and the rare chance that some special hand picked items are blessed, but I come from a OSI age that was not a safe place to be, only the strong survive type of thing. Once OSI gimped all that, I left, and ever since then have been moving from shard to shard looking for the "old way" I thought I found it here . . . I hope that this server does not get newbied!

Edit: Lets jsut implement the insurance thing again, where killing players could yield you upwords of 5K if players had everything insured! - gimps! (Just kidding, this is a lame idea)

[Kaivan]

I don't know if this illustrates my point, but the reality is that it is unjustifiable to simply ignore the thieves guild while accepting all of the other changes that were done at the time. It sets a precedence that we support one particular play style over another, which is absolutely not the case.

Meditation and anatomy bonuses weren't implemented in order to give in to the whiny bitches who couldn't handle the thieves in Britain by locking their damned containers, ultimately leading to the implementation of Trammel. I'd call that sufficient justification for cherrypicking the change out from the rest.

It's fine. I'm over it. It wouldn't be an T2A server without the retarded carebear changes that were implemented during the era leading up to trammel. It's interesting that you even replicated the feeling of disgust that I had in 1999 when this change was made originally. Talk about accuracy.

This was still a terrible decision.

I think that the broad definition of not allowing people to do what they want as the trammelization of UO is not appropriate here. The point of this patch was to stop thieves who were abusing stealing to do more than steal. It prevented a thief who had fighting skills of any sort from using stealing as a way to take things from another person without any real consequence (remember, before the thieves guild a thief could still give counts and stealing was not an aggressive action). This patch does the same to thieves by making them face the fact that their choice to use a particular skill had unavoidable consequences that went along with it that were not nullified by a particular build (basically putting PvP and non-PvP thieves on even playing ground on a per-theft basis). The same was done with the meditation patch which forced tank mages to pick up meditation in order to stay ahead of the curve. Their choice to be a tank mage came with the consequence of no armor or a sacrifice of mana regen to wear that armor, instead of having the best of both worlds as had been before.

Also, if we were to define changes that stopped people from doing whatever they wanted as trammelization of UO, we might as well define that beginning here:
12/9/97

• Bounty hunting
• When the outlaw is killed under the above circumstances
  • They lose 10% from all stats and skills on the spot, regardless of resurrection methods.

Essentially PKing was given a consequence for the actions that was more severe than before. Since that consequence detracts from the ability to do what you want, we can easily define it as trammelization. As a result, we can also say that trammelization started only 3 months after the game's release. Of course, that's silly to do so, and so is claiming that the thieves guild and aggressive stealing was as well.