Out of curiosity, a second shard?

[MatronDeWinter]

I like everything kabal is talking about, particularly "real" skill gain, and you know "character building". It seems like most people can't be bothered to do that nowadays for some reason, like they earned the right (by playing in 99) to get a free character on a completely unrelated server. Anyway, that being said, a new server is a bad idea. It will simply kill the population on uosa, because some people here are so hooked on their silly little items that it took them 10 minutes of farming to afford, that they will not move, and I (and I assume many others) would simply move on to the new Derrickopolis. I like the idea of a rebranded uosa, eg. server wipe.

Not that any of this matters, because you know, it will never happen. If the server decreased to 10 players online, 2 of them would still protest stating that either "I worked hard for these items" or "it would kill the population".

This thread is a certainly a neat "what if" discussion.

[Pied Piper]

Plenty of houses for sale in trade forums on good spots....

[chainsoar]

some text

Hey Mikel I'm gonna smash the ancient wyrm harder than you did lol


on foot

[Ronk]

Anyway, that being said, a new server is a bad idea. It will simply kill the population on uosa, because some people here are so hooked on their silly little items that it took them 10 minutes of farming to afford, that they will not move, and I (and I assume many others) would simply move on to the new Derrickopolis. I like the idea of a rebranded uosa, eg. server wipe.

...

This thread is a certainly a neat "what if" discussion.

Thats not necessarily true though, and I kinda touched on this. Yes, some pixel hoarders would quit but are these the people that benefit the shard? I'm not saying yes or no but for the ones who do nothing but horde...no ones gonna notice if they are gone.

I also like the idea of a server wipe/rebranding for a siege template and a few major tweaks of things/issues we can't tweak currently due to their nature. But I also feel this thread is a what if discussion.

[Lagrath]

Which essentialy means: I R NEW GUILD TOWN PLZ

Well you obviously didn't bother reading anything I wrote, which is a shame. If you had, you would have noticed that I repeatedly argued against the things that would give fresh players the easiest and fastest path to things like a new guild town, i.e. server wipes or a second shard.

Since you bothered to ask beforehand (you didn't), here's how I actually feel about ME or MY new guild getting our own town: we don't want or expect something today or next week or next month or even this year. I don't know if enough of the people that came over with me will even stick with this shard to keep the guild alive, much less make a town. I really don't care either, I'm here to have fun and to stick around regardless. If you're really so interested on how anything I've advocated affects/benefits me or my immediate future plans- it doesn't, at all. The exception is again a wipe or a second shard, which would benefit me as a new player drastically and both of which I oppose!

I came into this discussion to offer the opinion of what it would take to encourage a lot of new players and guild to move here while at the same time breathing some more value and actual decision-making into the stagnant housing/real estate situation, without slamming down on established players with something drastic like a wipe. That's all I was doing. I knew ahead of time that there were going to be some if not a lot of established players who came in here, skimmed everything, and just posted "LOL ITS EZ TO GET A HOUS NOOB DONT B LAZY" but I'm also happily surprised by the people who came and posted some thoughtful or nice things.




Is it POSSIBLE for some new players to come to T2A and eventually get some decent housing or even a guild town with some patience and good fortune? Of course it's possible, that was never the point. The point was whether you really want to go to a new or undecided player or guild and go "Hey look here we have a server where everyone has 3 accounts and every character can have a house on a server that's already been running for years and where you'll have a hard time reaching many house owners because they just log on twice a month to refresh their 10 homes, but listen to this anecdotal story of how this player or that guild was eventually able to luck out and seize an opportunity nonetheless." It's not exactly a great sales pitch, and it does nothing to address concerns with it barely being worth it for older players to sell houses because it gives them so little compared to their overall wealth and because there's no incentive to pick and choose between your various pieces of real estate.

[BlackFoot]

Theres nothing a new player cant get if they put the time and effort in. Vets houses drop, new guys get it. theres lots of housing spots and kind of easy to aquire castles etc

If the main idea is to make it possible for new players to become rich/powerful land owners they can already do that

Also, im down for a wipe, but i get to keep my stuff.

[GleepGlop]

Vets houses drop, WL gets it.

FTFY

[Pirul]

First off, I did read what you said, and I never said anything about you wanting a wipe or parallel shard. The first point I am trying to get across is that I hardly think the housing/real estate situation is "stagnant". Just because a two story in the swamps doesn't sell on the forums, or effyou's castles will never be sold, doesn't mean there are not a lot of trades going on. You don't see ALL the trades in the forums, but it doesn't mean they are not going on. To illustrate, these past 2 weeks two side by side keeps on the edge of a guardzone were sold and 99% of the shard didn't even know about it...they probably still don't know. Keep in mind one of these buildings is probably one of the 5 best known establishments around, and both were sold by two different veteran, well established players with millions in the bank.

New and undecided players who decide not to stick around because all the castle/keep spots are taken are very likely not to stick around anyway. Either because Sandro wins every tournament, they get ganked by TG when they tried to farm Thera Balrons, they got house looted by cA, Stonewilled beats them to tame mares or Telamon always gets the IDOC loots. Admins have stated over and over again that the goal is accuracy in regards to the mechanics present during the t2a era, and although I have never heard Derrick say it himself, the common belief is that he will be running this shard as accurately as possible even if only 10 players are here.

Regarding us "luck(ing) out", which is completely beside the point, I'll leave you with this gem from Thomas Jefferson: "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have".

[Lagrath]

First off, I did read what you said, and I never said anything about you wanting a wipe or parallel shard. The first point I am trying to get across is that I hardly think the housing/real estate situation is "stagnant". Just because a two story in the swamps doesn't sell on the forums, or effyou's castles will never be sold, doesn't mean there are not a lot of trades going on. You don't see ALL the trades in the forums, but it doesn't mean they are not going on. To illustrate, these past 2 weeks two side by side keeps on the edge of a guardzone were sold and 99% of the shard didn't even know about it...they probably still don't know. Keep in mind one of these buildings is probably one of the 5 best known establishments around, and both were sold by two different veteran, well established players with millions in the bank.

New and undecided players who decide not to stick around because all the castle/keep spots are taken are very likely not to stick around anyway. Either because Sandro wins every tournament, they get ganked by TG when they tried to farm Thera Balrons, they got house looted by cA, Stonewilled beats them to tame mares or Telamon always gets the IDOC loots. Admins have stated over and over again that the goal is accuracy in regards to the mechanics present during the t2a era, and although I have never heard Derrick say it himself, the common belief is that he will be running this shard as accurately as possible even if only 10 players are here.

Regarding us "luck(ing) out", which is completely beside the point, I'll leave you with this gem from Thomas Jefferson: "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have".

My point on reading what I wrote more carefully was just that it's obvious I wasn't coming anywhere at all from the position you described, considering the stances I've taken on this thread. Yes you never talked about what I was saying about wipes and new shards- that's sort of my point, you didn't get what I was saying what I was saying at all.

Same thing on misinterpreting what I called "stagnant"- I was using the word to describe the situation already pointed out in this thread by people who have been here much longer than I have. I never said there wasn't any housing activity for buying/selling here going on at all; obviously there is, look at the housing sub-forums. I was talking about houses going only a little above deed because there's so little incentive for those that have the most of the land to sell or to pick and choose between the houses. It really proves that you're not getting this when you tried to back up your point of one of the best 5 pieces of real estate getting sold between two rich players- yeah, of course that can happen, that still feeds into the situation I described perfectly. It doesn't have an impact on the places that are just sitting there and getting refreshed where there's no incentive to sell.

I mean, it's almost as if you're intentionally trying to misread every part of what I'm talking about for the purpose of dancing around my overall point. I know you're not, but that's how it's coming across in every post...I'm guessing it's because you just decided at the very start to latch on to viewing anything I say from this misguided lens of "Oh man here's just some new guy wishing he had a house" or something equally silly.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on your tangent on other things that could irritate new players- setting aside for a moment that you ignored my main point, which is that most of this is about convincing new players and guilds to try it here in the first place, I think that most people who try something like T2A know what they are getting into and what UO is like. In any MMO you can have people at the top who win most competitions or griefer guilds; for the hardcore people they feel ok with the challenge and more casual players don't care because they won't be involved much with tournaments or camping dangerous dungeons anyway. On the other hand everyone is interested in housing, and every new player I've seen come into irc since I joined asked almost right away about housing. Even if we assume that it is true that housing is more available than some of the speculation or server policies might suggest (and most of the IRC responses indicated otherwise), if the picture of the server or its policies give a discouraging overall picture to any new potential players, then that might be something worth looking at. Obviously the admins don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of key mechanics, but since it's a stated objective and effort to advertise the servers and get new players the bundling up of real estate seems like a legitimate discussion.

As far as your town goes- I don't doubt that it was lots of hard work and patience, I'm just saying that from your story a large amount of good fortune was involved as well, and will be necessary for anyone who attempts something similar (even if it's not in an A+ location like you guys have).

[Pied Piper]

First off, I did read what you said, and I never said anything about you wanting a wipe or parallel shard. The first point I am trying to get across is that I hardly think the housing/real estate situation is "stagnant". Just because a two story in the swamps doesn't sell on the forums, or effyou's castles will never be sold, doesn't mean there are not a lot of trades going on. You don't see ALL the trades in the forums, but it doesn't mean they are not going on. To illustrate, these past 2 weeks two side by side keeps on the edge of a guardzone were sold and 99% of the shard didn't even know about it...they probably still don't know. Keep in mind one of these buildings is probably one of the 5 best known establishments around, and both were sold by two different veteran, well established players with millions in the bank.

New and undecided players who decide not to stick around because all the castle/keep spots are taken are very likely not to stick around anyway. Either because Sandro wins every tournament, they get ganked by TG when they tried to farm Thera Balrons, they got house looted by cA, Stonewilled beats them to tame mares or Telamon always gets the IDOC loots. Admins have stated over and over again that the goal is accuracy in regards to the mechanics present during the t2a era, and although I have never heard Derrick say it himself, the common belief is that he will be running this shard as accurately as possible even if only 10 players are here.

Regarding us "luck(ing) out", which is completely beside the point, I'll leave you with this gem from Thomas Jefferson: "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have".

My point on reading what I wrote more carefully was just that it's obvious I wasn't coming anywhere at all from the position you described, considering the stances I've taken on this thread. Yes you never talked about what I was saying about wipes and new shards- that's sort of my point, you didn't get what I was saying what I was saying at all.

Same thing on misinterpreting what I called "stagnant"- I was using the word to describe the situation already pointed out in this thread by people who have been here much longer than I have. I never said there wasn't any housing activity for buying/selling here going on at all; obviously there is, look at the housing sub-forums. I was talking about houses going only a little above deed because there's so little incentive for those that have the most of the land to sell or to pick and choose between the houses. It really proves that you're not getting this when you tried to back up your point of one of the best 5 pieces of real estate getting sold between two rich players- yeah, of course that can happen, that still feeds into the situation I described perfectly. It doesn't have an impact on the places that are just sitting there and getting refreshed where there's no incentive to sell.

I mean, it's almost as if you're intentionally trying to misread every part of what I'm talking about for the purpose of dancing around my overall point. I know you're not, but that's how it's coming across in every post...I'm guessing it's because you just decided at the very start to latch on to viewing anything I say from this misguided lens of "Oh man here's just some new guy wishing he had a house" or something equally silly.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on your tangent on other things that could irritate new players- setting aside for a moment that you ignored my main point, which is that most of this is about convincing new players and guilds to try it here in the first place, I think that most people who try something like T2A know what they are getting into and what UO is like. In any MMO you can have people at the top who win most competitions or griefer guilds; for the hardcore people they feel ok with the challenge and more casual players don't get because they won't be involved much with tournaments or camping dangerous dungeons anyway. On the other hand everyone is interested in housing, and every new player I've seen come into irc since I joined asked almost right away about housing. Even if we assume that it is true that housing is more available than some of the speculation or server policies might suggest (and most of the IRC responses indicated otherwise), if the picture of the server or its policies give a discouraging overall picture to any new potential players, then that's an issue. Obviously the admins don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of key mechanics, but since it's a stated objective and effort to advertise the servers and get new players the bundling up of real estate seems like a legitimate discussion.

As far as your town goes- I don't doubt that it was lots of hard work and patience, I'm just saying that from your story a large amount of good fortune was involved as well, and will be necessary for anyone who attempts something similar (even if it's not in an A+ location like you guys have).

HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN!

[Lagrath]

HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN!

Well when you have to correct like 6 different things -.- .....


Edit: To be clear, Pirul- I think it's really awesome what you guys did and that you stuck together, and I think it's a great example to follow.

[Pirul]

Thnx.

I never started off with a preconcieved view of "Oh man here's just some new guy wishing he had a house". I was simply trying to suggest to new players that come here asking about the housing situation, that buying ANYTHING is possible with patience, work and perseverance. C^V is a guild whose one of the main goals is helping new players, and we get a lot of them. There are the types that like to play cassually because they enjoy the game, and after some time here have only 1 small house in the middle of nowhere and millions in the bank. There are the pixel hoarders, who will go on farming frenzies because they want the best, the most, the leetest. Then there are the ones who simply don't care. They'll come here, you help them out with tips on how to make it here and improve their chars. Lend them a house. Hire a Paladin for them and put up one of your healers so they can macro their chars up, and before they even finish their chars, get bored (in spite of going out in hunts, and being fully included in our activities), and stop logging in. The only thing we DO NOT do is give them more than 5k gold (to buy skills and basic gear) or gift them houses. We will continue to do it in spite of the numerous new players we've seen come and go.

But I digress, and before I go any further, let's agree on your main point, which I take is this:

On the other hand everyone is interested in housing, and every new player I've seen come into irc since I joined asked almost right away about housing. Even if we assume that it is true that housing is more available than some of the speculation or server policies might suggest (and most of the IRC responses indicated otherwise), if the picture of the server or its policies give a discouraging overall picture to any new potential players, then that's an issue. Obviously the admins don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of key mechanics, but since it's a stated objective and effort to advertise the servers and get new players the bundling up of real estate seems like a legitimate discussion.

Which as I understand is: the server policies currently in place and most of the IRC responses regarding housing discourage new players from playing here because they suggest that each and all the veterans have 15 houses in the best spots and they log in only to refresh (ok, I went a bit overboard here, but you get the point, right?), and they will never be able to get a good house/area. Am I right?

If I am, then my opinion, is they are judging a book by its cover. It's like poking your head into a nudie bar, looking around and leave immediately because there are no red heads, when in reality there is the most gorgeous one back stage about to come out. Which is akin to players leaving because they loose to Sandro in tournaments (true story, one of my guildmates rage quit because he lost in the first round of a tournament with the tank mage he had just finished macroing and had never actually played). And this takes us to my original point, which is:

I was simply trying to suggest to new players that come here asking about the housing situation, that buying ANYTHING is possible with patience, work and perseverance.

And it pretty much translates to everything. Wanna beat Sandro in the tournaments? Practice, practice, practice, and you might. I've seen Sandro loose to many players. If they are not willing to put in patience, work and perseverance, then they probably don't care, and will leave anyway.

Probably what we're doing wrong is dramatizing things too much. Could it be that the problem might be that we are not saying "Yes, most of the best places are already taken, but you can buy anything eventually." to those head pokers on IRC?

[Bicchus Dicchus]

New shard should be samurai empire

[Notorious]

Thnx.

I never started off with a preconcieved view of "Oh man here's just some new guy wishing he had a house". I was simply trying to suggest to new players that come here asking about the housing situation, that buying ANYTHING is possible with patience, work and perseverance. C^V is a guild whose one of the main goals is helping new players, and we get a lot of them. There are the types that like to play cassually because they enjoy the game, and after some time here have only 1 small house in the middle of nowhere and millions in the bank. There are the pixel hoarders, who will go on farming frenzies because they want the best, the most, the leetest. Then there are the ones who simply don't care. They'll come here, you help them out with tips on how to make it here and improve their chars. Lend them a house. Hire a Paladin for them and put up one of your healers so they can macro their chars up, and before they even finish their chars, get bored (in spite of going out in hunts, and being fully included in our activities), and stop logging in. The only thing we DO NOT do is give them more than 5k gold (to buy skills and basic gear) or gift them houses. We will continue to do it in spite of the numerous new players we've seen come and go.

But I digress, and before I go any further, let's agree on your main point, which I take is this:

On the other hand everyone is interested in housing, and every new player I've seen come into irc since I joined asked almost right away about housing. Even if we assume that it is true that housing is more available than some of the speculation or server policies might suggest (and most of the IRC responses indicated otherwise), if the picture of the server or its policies give a discouraging overall picture to any new potential players, then that's an issue. Obviously the admins don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of key mechanics, but since it's a stated objective and effort to advertise the servers and get new players the bundling up of real estate seems like a legitimate discussion.

Which as I understand is: the server policies currently in place and most of the IRC responses regarding housing discourage new players from playing here because they suggest that each and all the veterans have 15 houses in the best spots and they log in only to refresh (ok, I went a bit overboard here, but you get the point, right?), and they will never be able to get a good house/area. Am I right?

If I am, then my opinion, is they are judging a book by its cover. It's like poking your head into a nudie bar, looking around and leave immediately because there are no red heads, when in reality there is the most gorgeous one back stage about to come out. Which is akin to players leaving because they loose to Sandro in tournaments (true story, one of my guildmates rage quit because he lost in the first round of a tournament with the tank mage he had just finished macroing and had never actually played). And this takes us to my original point, which is:

I was simply trying to suggest to new players that come here asking about the housing situation, that buying ANYTHING is possible with patience, work and perseverance.

And it pretty much translates to everything. Wanna beat Sandro in the tournaments? Practice, practice, practice, and you might. I've seen Sandro loose to many players. If they are not willing to put in patience, work and perseverance, then they probably don't care, and will leave anyway.

Probably what we're doing wrong is dramatizing things too much. Could it be that the problem might be that we are not saying "Yes, most of the best places are already taken, but you can buy anything eventually." to those head pokers on IRC?

I Have found an error in your post that made me not be able to read it
!!
YOU MISSPELLED LOSE !
" I've seen Sandro loose to many players"
NERD LEARN TO SPELL
But actually I don't agree with you, my opinion

[Pirul]

Thank you for catching that, I completely missed it.

Care to illustrate us with your opinion?