Swing on the run (dexing)

[Ronk]

Fair enough, my PK is stacked with like 200k worth of shit on a good day so it's fair a dexer should carry the same Even my blue mages/PvPers have around 60-100k worth of stuff on them and I consider that equipment only a little above average.

Honestly, are we really comparing what a viable dexer should carry to a PK in stat loss who has a +25 vanq hally? That's absurd.

My whole point, and I think a lot other people agree who played during this era (I played on LS), is that dexers were viable with nothing more than a GM weap and GM armor, a handful of regs(maybe no regs), and some bandaids. That's why they got a lot of slack because they had almost no loot and nearly no talent to play..."dex monkeys".

I was one of the few dexers back on LS during this era that had 100 magery/100 resist and the template was incredibly powerful.

Here it's the total friggin opposite. That's whack.

This predicament just closes the door to common "dex monkey", which means less players. Think about it. There's not many people who want to be that hardcore about this game to effectively play a dexer on this shard. On the other hand, if we could somehow re-vitalize the "Dex monkey", then more people would play that type of char.

I am glad to see more positive feedback supporting this and the 'dexxer' class. For the record, since Bloodrock was mentioned, I am not pro dexxer for Bloodrock. Being Bloodrock just means im one of the few people who plays a dexxer and hasn't quit...yet. In addition it means that I was one of the big dexxers back in the day.

And regarding Vanqs, I always lol when I see someone wanting 5k+ for a vanq given how useless they are here (hallys aside). I haven't seen a single person, yet, who mentioned not remembering grabbing some GM gear, a weapon, some bandaids, and rocking out. Thats not to say you'd always win in PVP but it certainly wasn't the joke it was here. Yet sadly, to get it fixed and made era accurate we need a non-existant patch note or a you tube video from an era before you tube existed.

[Brymstone]

Fair enough, my PK is stacked with like 200k worth of shit on a good day so it's fair a dexer should carry the same Even my blue mages/PvPers have around 60-100k worth of stuff on them and I consider that equipment only a little above average.

Honestly, are we really comparing what a viable dexer should carry to a PK in stat loss who has a +25 vanq hally? That's absurd.

My whole point, and I think a lot other people agree who played during this era (I played on LS), is that dexers were viable with nothing more than a GM weap and GM armor, a handful of regs(maybe no regs), and some bandaids. That's why they got a lot of slack because they had almost no loot and nearly no talent to play..."dex monkeys".

I was one of the few dexers back on LS during this era that had 100 magery/100 resist and the template was incredibly powerful.

Here it's the total friggin opposite. That's whack.

This predicament just closes the door to common "dex monkey", which means less players. Think about it. There's not many people who want to be that hardcore about this game to effectively play a dexer on this shard. On the other hand, if we could somehow re-vitalize the "Dex monkey", then more people would play that type of char.

Was that before or after you sold your account with Reality on it? You didn't play Ragancy that much as I remember it, Reality was your Tank and you were out on him ALOT until you sold that account.

T2A era dexers weren't that good, that's why UO:R came about. There were a few patches that tried to help ease the pain of T2A, but eventually it had to be changed entirely over with the introduction of UO:R due to the fact that too many people just got bored playing and dueling with their Tanks. Also, new players would start, find out that they had to have a Tank to compete and just quit as there was too much of a time/gold investment in that. Same applies here, casual players will get owned by Tanks, try to make a tank, get frustrated because it takes too long to build one and go over to another shard that has a more equitable balance.

Dexers prospered from the patch that demolished the archer/mage template right before T2A was introduced. DexMonkies bacame "the shit" (I mowed mages down with nothing but refresh pots, bandaids, and a long spear), then T2A came in and I think it was four or five patches in that dexers were nerfed and Tank mages became the uber template (cause there were ALOT of unhappy mages crying on the boards everyday to give them some love). There was alot of bitching from the dexmonkies, patching and tweaking took place but dexers never did regain any real viability until UO:R. UO:R came about and there was a short period of peace between the classes as PvP became a buffet for mages and dexmonkies as they now had more "toys" to play with as far as mechanics and trying to exploit them. After that UO went terribly wrong.

I do agree that the "strut" walk is TOTAL BS and makes me want to quit every friggin day, in fact it has actually pissed me off enough I've started my money maker toon on "that other shard". Not being able to hit on the run was never a problem in UO, from Dreadlord days to the time I quit OSI (when artifacts started taking over).

Don't get me wrong, I do o.k. on my dexer but like Nightshark pointed out I have to have at least 100k worth of shit on me and I still have trouble killing people. Mini-heal, "strut" walk and the nerfing of archery (because too many people cried about the bot turrets) leads me to believe that this shard DOES cater to a certain few as they DO influence the changes and style of play on this shard to suit their interpretation of "era accuracy".

Can't complain though as it is a free shard, I suppose if people don't like it here then they can go somewhere else (looks like they're doing that now), it's a shame because Derrick has done a really good job on everything else. Too bad the combat mechanics are broken.

[Matty]

Fair enough, my PK is stacked with like 200k worth of shit on a good day so it's fair a dexer should carry the same Even my blue mages/PvPers have around 60-100k worth of stuff on them and I consider that equipment only a little above average.

Honestly, are we really comparing what a viable dexer should carry to a PK in stat loss who has a +25 vanq hally? That's absurd.

My whole point, and I think a lot other people agree who played during this era (I played on LS), is that dexers were viable with nothing more than a GM weap and GM armor, a handful of regs(maybe no regs), and some bandaids. That's why they got a lot of slack because they had almost no loot and nearly no talent to play..."dex monkeys".

I was one of the few dexers back on LS during this era that had 100 magery/100 resist and the template was incredibly powerful.

Here it's the total friggin opposite. That's whack.

This predicament just closes the door to common "dex monkey", which means less players. Think about it. There's not many people who want to be that hardcore about this game to effectively play a dexer on this shard. On the other hand, if we could somehow re-vitalize the "Dex monkey", then more people would play that type of char.

Was that before or after you sold your account with Reality on it? You didn't play Ragancy that much as I remember it, Reality was your Tank and you were out on him ALOT until you sold that account.

T2A era dexers weren't that good, that's why UO:R came about. There were a few patches that tried to help ease the pain of T2A, but eventually it had to be changed entirely over with the introduction of UO:R due to the fact that too many people just got bored playing and dueling with their Tanks. Also, new players would start, find out that they had to have a Tank to compete and just quit as there was too much of a time/gold investment in that. Same applies here, casual players will get owned by Tanks, try to make a tank, get frustrated because it takes too long to build one and go over to another shard that has a more equitable balance.

Dexers prospered from the patch that demolished the archer/mage template right before T2A was introduced. DexMonkies bacame "the shit" (I mowed mages down with nothing but refresh pots, bandaids, and a long spear), then T2A came in and I think it was four or five patches in that dexers were nerfed and Tank mages became the uber template (cause there were ALOT of unhappy mages crying on the boards everyday to give them some love). There was alot of bitching from the dexmonkies, patching and tweaking took place but dexers never did regain any real viability until UO:R. UO:R came about and there was a short period of peace between the classes as PvP became a buffet for mages and dexmonkies as they now had more "toys" to play with as far as mechanics and trying to exploit them. After that UO went terribly wrong.

I do agree that the "strut" walk is TOTAL BS and makes me want to quit every friggin day, in fact it has actually pissed me off enough I've started my money maker toon on "that other shard". Not being able to hit on the run was never a problem in UO, from Dreadlord days to the time I quit OSI (when artifacts started taking over).

Don't get me wrong, I do o.k. on my dexer but like Nightshark pointed out I have to have at least 100k worth of shit on me and I still have trouble killing people. Mini-heal, "strut" walk and the nerfing of archery (because too many people cried about the bot turrets) leads me to believe that this shard DOES cater to a certain few as they DO influence the changes and style of play on this shard to suit their interpretation of "era accuracy".

Can't complain though as it is a free shard, I suppose if people don't like it here then they can go somewhere else (looks like they're doing that now), it's a shame because Derrick has done a really good job on everything else. Too bad the combat mechanics are broken.

me and rag go back. he played ragancy much more than his tank to my recollection. i didn't even know he had a tank.

[Matty]

The "strut" walk method really has no bearing, the only reason that is stopping anyone from swinging is because the person playing the melee character is simply not stopping to ready a swing, and just mashing down his run mouse-button.

There are so many opportunities to stop and ready a swing without it affecting the fight, you just have to incorporate it into your play-style.

Somebody doing this would in no way what-so-ever prevent me from being able to swing a weapon, playing a melee class character.

even if you stop for a few ticks to charge your swing, someone strutting can often completely avoid being swung on.

[Ragancy]

Ok all points are argued well and I don't want to talk about history on LS but yes I played both chars (Ragancy was my mage in late Dread Lord days when 90 magery owned).

Where are people finding new info on old UO mechanics?

[Brymstone]

Matty,

You sure you weren't playing with HellRazor, he bought the account in 1997 and played it until 2000? So whoever is claiming to be Ragancy must be the one who sold it in 1997 or bought it from Razor in 2000. Ragancy was a mage at the time so IDK, maybe they switched him over to a dexmonkey after Razor got rid of the account

[Kaivan]

Don't get me wrong, I do o.k. on my dexer but like Nightshark pointed out I have to have at least 100k worth of shit on me and I still have trouble killing people. Mini-heal, "strut" walk and the nerfing of archery (because too many people cried about the bot turrets) leads me to believe that this shard DOES cater to a certain few as they DO influence the changes and style of play on this shard to suit their interpretation of "era accuracy".

Again, this is a patently false assumption regarding combat mechanics. For example, what do you feel was changed about archery that a specific person asked for over known evidence?

[Brymstone]

Don't get me wrong, I do o.k. on my dexer but like Nightshark pointed out I have to have at least 100k worth of shit on me and I still have trouble killing people. Mini-heal, "strut" walk and the nerfing of archery (because too many people cried about the bot turrets) leads me to believe that this shard DOES cater to a certain few as they DO influence the changes and style of play on this shard to suit their interpretation of "era accuracy".

Again, this is a patently false assumption regarding combat mechanics. For example, what do you feel was changed about archery that a specific person asked for over known evidence?

Kaivan, as I don't have actual proof that can pinpoint a "smoking gun". It is, however, suspect that archery was working just fine. Then attack of the archer bots happened, public outcry on the boards ensued as well, I'm sure many more PM's decrying the unfair advantage of said tactics. It was shortly after that there was an archery "fix".

That is just a tad bit suspicious. Not that it really matters or anyone cares, just an observation and merely an opinion.

[Roser]

Brymstone, the archery fix went in along with the rest of the major combat changes that happened a while back. It has everything to do with accurate changes, and nothing to do with people bitching about archer bots.

[Ronk]

Don't get me wrong, I do o.k. on my dexer but like Nightshark pointed out I have to have at least 100k worth of shit on me and I still have trouble killing people. Mini-heal, "strut" walk and the nerfing of archery (because too many people cried about the bot turrets) leads me to believe that this shard DOES cater to a certain few as they DO influence the changes and style of play on this shard to suit their interpretation of "era accuracy".

Again, this is a patently false assumption regarding combat mechanics. For example, what do you feel was changed about archery that a specific person asked for over known evidence?

I agree with Brymstones statement here and I feel the same way. I think tourneys are a big example again, they cater to a specific play style and are unchanging. Im sure somewhere, sometime, there is a tourney with magic weapons and poison, etc...but ultimately all of the tourneys cater to the same template.

And rose, was that not around the time most people started quitting? I dunno, I think all of the archery changes were in my down time. Either way, no smoking gun is ever going to be found on the topic until the higher ups decide to find a way to make dexxers compeititive or until the the 'few that are catered to' that Brymstone talked about decide to put as much effort into being pro dexxer as they have into being anti-dexxer, nothing will change.

I know I am certainly not going to waste my time arguing with a brick wall, lol.

[Brymstone]

Brymstone, the archery fix went in along with the rest of the major combat changes that happened a while back. It has everything to do with accurate changes, and nothing to do with people bitching about archer bots.

The timeframe was very damn close, be that as it may I'm not going to try to sell ice to you escimos. Fact remains that the combat mechanics and spell timers/damage/recovery rate are all off and not era accurate. Regardless of what any DEMO disk or screenshots and a few strung together snipits from some old stratics pages would have most on this shard believing.

PvP on this shard is not T2A accurate, period. It's a nice emulation as far as everything else though.

[Faust]

Kaivan, as I don't have actual proof that can pinpoint a "smoking gun". It is, however, suspect that archery was working just fine. Then attack of the archer bots happened, public outcry on the boards ensued as well, I'm sure many more PM's decrying the unfair advantage of said tactics. It was shortly after that there was an archery "fix".

That is just a tad bit suspicious. Not that it really matters or anyone cares, just an observation and merely an opinion.

I would suggest actually taking the time to understand how and why the swing timer mechanics were implemented based on 'era accuracy' here in the first place...

Oh, and as far as being 'era accurate' here you obviously have no clue.

[Brymstone]

Sorry, I didn't play a demo disk. I played the actual production shards from 1997-2004.

Just for the sake of argument, then I'll just let this whipped horse die, Faust, do you in fact possess the original proprietary OSI source code and ALL the patches from 1996-1998? If not then you're guessing and that does not equal era accuracy. You guys are great programmers and could run circles around most as far as tech talk, but when it comes down to it you are throwing darts in the dark if you DO NOT possess the original source code and all the patches up to '98.

I know you will argue the point with demo disk this and screenshot that, but without the actual code and patch material it's simply trying to piecemeal a system together.

[Kaivan]

Sorry, I didn't play a demo disk. I played the actual production shards from 1997-2004.

Just for the sake of argument, then I'll just let this whipped horse die, Faust, do you in fact possess the original proprietary OSI source code and ALL the patches from 1996-1998? If not then you're guessing and that does not equal era accuracy. You guys are great programmers and could run circles around most as far as tech talk, but when it comes down to it you are throwing darts in the dark if you DO NOT possess the original source code and all the patches up to '98.

I know you will argue the point with demo disk this and screenshot that, but without the actual code and patch material it's simply trying to piecemeal a system together.

First, we do have access to actual code. It's the code from the demo packaged with the original T2A disk. Aside from the name of it (everyone seems caught up on the name and ignores all other facts about it), the actual code itself is a windows ported version of their UNIX based UO code from 1998. This is an indisputable fact, and I'm surprised at how few people put the due diligence in to find out this information. It's not like we don't make it readily available.

Second, we also have access to all of the patch notes from 1997 to 2000, which covers all of the relevant changes when the game was live and gives us the ability to use the demo as a starting point and map any changes that went forward with very good results.

At this point, if you don't want to believe that the changes exist with the intent of era accuracy, then that's you're prerogative. However, as with all changes on UOSA, any change that has happened, or will happen to combat mechanics must come from era evidence; none of which has been provided in this thread.

[Faust]

The sad part is that no matter how many times it is repeated Kaivan... it will never matter and the 'nay sayers' will continue their drum beat of denial.

Not that you didn't already know that, lol.