PK - Someone please explain

[Ahntara]

New to UOT2A after many years away. I was actually glad to find a shard that this style of play is not only permitted, but embraced. So bear with my whining and chime in to give your POV. I really do want to know why ppl are doing this.

I don't understand the PK gank. In reading here and the YouTube link that got me back in game, I see over and over that more ppl are wanted to join in, increase the participation and improve this shard. Yet, I've met so many (obviously) young/new players who have been PK'd by two or more, looted clean and are so discouraged they want to quit. If the two who rushed me had offered to fight or informed me that I was hunting in an off-limits spot, I would have gladly left. I also would have been just as happy to meet the ppl behind the avatar and hear directly from them. PVP against a worthy opponent is valid play. Superior numbers with mega skills chasing down a newbie seems cowardly and pointless, other than to drive ppl away from the server and onto others where PVP is not part of the game.

So, let me know why you do what you do. Maybe I just need a different view here.

[Corbin]

This is the sole purpose for a lot of players here: kill everything that moves.

They are simply compensating for RL failure by flexing their cyber muscles.

[SJane3384]

I'm thinking a lot of the PKs are newer players themselves. When I started here two years ago, noob PK (unless they were hanging out in the hot spots) was extremely rare. Most people were very helpful.

Just out of curiosity, where did it happen?

[iamreallysquall]

kill first ask questions later? i have killed people in bone armor carrying rares / 20+ power weapons and like close 8-9k in gold in 1 spell + 1 hally hit, if you die and your corpse looks Very very noobish probably wont dry loot it. other things to think about Giving a count / not giving a count depending on the person changes your odds's of getting stuff and or a rez / gate out. if they are deep stat they probably want bounty's if they aren't and you count then you are probably dry looted. location comes to play to like someone else asked where are they farming, did they think they could stroll into destard as a noob and not deal with pk's? or a few other hot spots for this come to mind. I think of one individual in particular who started spiting rude things to me at lower spawn while on a blue, he started claiming it was his and i took the spot this resulted in him getting pked 6 times over the span of a few days for being racist / rude to me over pixels. then another guy was attempting to farm destard and though it was a good idea to stick around with a corpse worth over 10k. for the record i pk solo.

[Ahntara]

I'm thinking a lot of the PKs are newer players themselves. When I started here two years ago, noob PK (unless they were hanging out in the hot spots) was extremely rare. Most people were very helpful.

Just out of curiosity, where did it happen?

It was at Yew liches. These guys were well armed & well skilled, so it was a total gank, with no challenge or battle.

If they didn't loot clean they should have. I didn't go thru their gate (I may be young but I'm not stupid) and I didn't go back to check my body. Assumed that anyone who'd gank a newer player would'nt be honorable about it anyway. When I PVP'd, it was for the challenge - the thrill of the fight - not just to victimize someone else and discourage them. I was looking to engage. I mean, I don't go ganking mongbats...so why kill an avatar who's no threat and no challenge? If it's for loot, then why not make a thief and steal outright without stressing someone and possibly causing them to leave the server?

As far as bounty and counts; since I'm new here, I don't really understand the nuances and politics that you and the other response(s) intimated. Back on GL giving a count for PK was the only retribution you could take (especially prior to working up a PVP'er of your own for revenge), and was expected. Is that not how it is on this shard?

Personally, I enjoy meeting others, interacting and helping ppl out. And I'm trying hard not to judge someone else's playstyle out of ignorance. I just don't get this and since I've heard it from lots of newer chars in the last two weeks (since I've been in a position to help someone other than just myself), I appreciate all the understanding anyone can offer.

[Downs]

What I take depends on my need. Gold and refs are always taken, but the rest completely depends on if it looks interesting. I will say that if I run into someone I killed and they're not an idiot, they tend to get at least some of their stuff back.

If the situation lends it, I either rez and leave recall stuff or gate em to towns.

Also my pks a tinker, and tinker based kills are ALWAYS hilarious

[Blaise]

Yeah, my son and I were lured out of town by an offer of newb assistance in our first week here, only to be PKed by T-Bell or some such lamer.
I proceded to spam the bank with 'T-Bell preys on noobs' for a bit then I moved on.

I actually put the slap down on a red the other night in Covetous when he recalled in and didn't expect my PvP buddy to be hiding in the room with me.
I hit him with the heavy xbow, then cycled to halberd at which point he hit the trapped door and tried to recall out, only to recall about 10 tiles behind me. He was then hally smacked and dead because his recall landed him one tile from my friend.

The point of the story is really that I knew the guy from another time we had chatted in the Lich Lord room. He's a decent guy and didn't kill me then, even though he was red. I apologized for killing him and explained that basically when I see red, I'm either recalling like a baby, or throwing blows. I don't tend to think about names when they are red. After that, I'll try to make a habit of it, but more often than not, they are rolling in a crew and purely just gangbanging because they have pretty much ZERO 1v1 skill. It's fine, I understand the weak need something to do to, so I don't hold it against them much.

But yes, it would seem the vast majority of the reds here do not care for a fight. They are simply rapists looking for those who stand no chance, to prey on them as it is their only real chance of success in this shard.

[Ahntara]

What I take depends on my need. Gold and refs are always taken, but the rest completely depends on if it looks interesting. I will say that if I run into someone I killed and they're not an idiot, they tend to get at least some of their stuff back.

If the situation lends it, I either rez and leave recall stuff or gate em to towns.

Also my pks a tinker, and tinker based kills are ALWAYS hilarious

Point taken - most will loot those they kill. If you're carrying something and get PK'd, you lose your stuff. It's no different than not being able to get back to your body when killed PVM. I wanted to hear more about why you are targetting players in the first place. While everyone may not specifically target newer players who have no chance of offering a fair fight, enough ppl are doing it for the majority of newer ones to have this experience. Saw a red ghost standing in town days ago and his profile read, "Being nice and new to T2A won't save you...". If those factors don't, then what kind of game do ppl want to play here?

I was thinking of this last night and remembering that in the five years I played UO on GL - I was only PK'd once and it certainly wasn't in my first month of play. If it really is true that the dungeons are off-limits on this server because of reds, where are non-PVP players supposed to hunt? Is the game really limited to crafting and hanging out in town for those who don't want to get ganked?

[iamreallysquall]

What I take depends on my need. Gold and refs are always taken, but the rest completely depends on if it looks interesting. I will say that if I run into someone I killed and they're not an idiot, they tend to get at least some of their stuff back.

If the situation lends it, I either rez and leave recall stuff or gate em to towns.

Also my pks a tinker, and tinker based kills are ALWAYS hilarious

i miss trammel?

[Downs]

Tricking and killing each other is what makes this game fun imo. I target anyone I think will fall for my traps (save the noobs farming Brit GY).

I don't do it to grief people off the server. The alternative would be farming monsters that I have no need to farm, or making chainmail tunics all day.

[Ragancy]

five years I played UO on GL - I was only PK'd once

That doesn't sound right. Back on LS in 97-99 PKing was rampant...and great fun. I got PKed dozens and dozens of times when I was new then, and I got PKed here on UOSA when I was new. Now I PK the PKs. Honestly the first time I got PKed here I relished it. It was a blast of nostalgia.

[Foefoucheaux]

My personal perspective on secondage PKing is that it is the final refuge for non-consensual PvP. In nearly all gaming since UO, pvp has been consensual in one form or another. Either you have to agree to pvp, enter a pvp-designated zone, or you have the choice to play on a non-pvp realm, for example. In T2A PKing is the 'end-game' if you will. For alot of players here on secondage, their main goal and reason for farming wealth is to ultimately PvP. I mean its not like the monsters pose much of a challenge. With a little macroing anyone could farm the most difficult mobs in UO within a week of joining the shard.

So my rational is that since this shard is one of the few places where pvp is still non-consensual, it will inevitably draw players that want this type of combat. It seems that the original poster in this thread is seeking consensual pvp in the form of an honorable agreement among two players to fight. Remember that reds are murderers. They are role-playing a person who has no remorse or concern for right/wrong. In a role playing game they are totally at liberty to do this. Additionally the presence of "evil-doers" allows for the presence of heroes and champions of virtue. There can be no good without evil.

Personally, I enjoy consensual pvp. I tried to PK on my tank but I just couldnt bring myself to gank people. I guess I'm a wimp. Like Downs I think trapped boxes are funnier. I agree with the OP's rational to make a thief, and I prefer my thief to my tank. Although, imho a thief is much harder to play and yields less rewards than a tank PK. In the end you play what is fun for you. Dungeons are not off limits, rather the PK squads encourage players to form groups and hunt together, which in a MMORPG is the whole point.

William Ellery Channing once said, "Difficulties are meant to rouse, not discourage. The human spirit is to grow strong by conflict."

If players quit the shard because its hard thats unfortunate. But I believe the pros of perserving the freedom that exists on secondage outweigh the cons.

[Ahntara]

My personal perspective on secondage PKing is that it is the final refuge for non-consensual PvP. In nearly all gaming since UO, pvp has been consensual in one form or another. Either you have to agree to pvp, enter a pvp-designated zone, or you have the choice to play on a non-pvp realm, for example. In T2A PKing is the 'end-game' if you will. For alot of players here on secondage, their main goal and reason for farming wealth is to ultimately PvP. I mean its not like the monsters pose much of a challenge. With a little macroing anyone could farm the most difficult mobs in UO within a week of joining the shard.

So my rational is that since this shard is one of the few places where pvp is still non-consensual, it will inevitably draw players that want this type of combat. It seems that the original poster in this thread is seeking consensual pvp in the form of an honorable agreement among two players to fight. Remember that reds are murderers. They are role-playing a person who has no remorse or concern for right/wrong. In a role playing game they are totally at liberty to do this. Additionally the presence of "evil-doers" allows for the presence of heroes and champions of virtue. There can be no good without evil.

Personally, I enjoy consensual pvp. I tried to PK on my tank but I just couldnt bring myself to gank people. I guess I'm a wimp. Like Downs I think trapped boxes are funnier. I agree with the OP's rational to make a thief, and I prefer my thief to my tank. Although, imho a thief is much harder to play and yields less rewards than a tank PK. In the end you play what is fun for you. Dungeons are not off limits, rather the PK squads encourage players to form groups and hunt together, which in a MMORPG is the whole point.

William Ellery Channing once said, "Difficulties are meant to rouse, not discourage. The human spirit is to grow strong by conflict."

If players quit the shard because its hard thats unfortunate. But I believe the pros of perserving the freedom that exists on secondage outweigh the cons.

Thx for your imput.

I'm left with a sour taste because of being targetted at such a new point and I've met about a dozen others (since I go out of my way to help new-looking chars) who have similar feelings. I agree that PVP is a fun challenge and wish I had the mad skills after 4 days of (non-crafting) play to participate, but truth is I probably won't be able to compete one-on-one for a few months and probaly never be able to withstand an all-out gank by superior numbers.

I worked hard to generate funds my first two weeks and got bored silly. I have no desire to sit in town, smith, chop or spin wool while I fight a skeleton or two once a week. If that's what this server is about, then yea, I do miss Trammel. There will always be jerks & griefers even on non-PVP servers. It just seems contradictory to what I've read about ppl promoting this version and desiring new players. If new ones are not welcome here, they will certainly flee to other servers.

I don't fight skeletons, lizardmen or headless - even though that's appropriate to my skill level. What's fun about that? That's a comparable scenario to those two reds running my newbie mage down. So they got some stuff they could have looted off my body after being liched-killed. Most vets are not hurting for regs, money, weapons or anything else they'll get off of a new char. If I'm not lacking in funds 2.5 weeks into play, then neither are they. It's not the challenge, it's not the thrill and it's not the loot.

For the record - if given the opportunity I would have left. If they had informed me that this is one of the places that I'm not supposed to hunt, {how am I or anyone else supposed to know?} I would have obeyed, gladly. I can afford everything they took from me, except for the stress and feeling of being chased off here, which is contrary to lots I've read here and heard from others in game. On GL I knew and hunted beside reds and lived peacefully with them. They RP murderers? There is still a person operating that avatar who can decide to target a new one or provide them another experience. Those guys could have wacked me down, demanded whatever they wanted from me, left me with a warning or simply allowed me to run away once they saw I was no match for them.

Okay, so thx all who've answered, I appreciate your feedback and opinions. There's an underlying contradiction in advertising this server while certain chars deliberately target and alienate new players. A few players have split personalities, welcoming and wanting more participation on one hand while antagonizing and victimizing on the other. If you think it doesn't impact the numbers here - you're mistaken.

[Ahntara]

[quote="Downs"]).

I don't do it to grief people off the server.quote]


Not to be inflamatory, but Duh! What do you think the result will be? If some new player encounters you, the two reds who ran me down with no chance or the gangs of thieves that bank-sit and moongate-gate sit just to take what little they manage to accumulate in their first days/weeks here; do you think they're gonna stick around? What other logical conclusion is there to this scenario?

Honestly, not trying to argue or flame. I want to know your thought process on this.

I'm wondering if some of the vet players here have lost touch with what it's like to come here as a new (especially) or a new-returning player? Have you forgotten what it's like to start out with 200 gp and spend your first few hours trying not to die from a giant spider bite so you can get some food? It sucks to be lame whlle you work up stats and skills. It sucks not being able to enjoy your time because you have to macro before you can leave town. And it sucks to get smacked down for stepping foot someplace where you might experience a little fun in a VIDEO GAME! In a MMORPG, it's supposed to be fun for lots of ppl - not just those fortunate to have been here for a long time.

Okay, enough whining...thx ppl for your indulgence and feedback. *gets off her soapbox*

[Blaise]

Yeah babe, cool it out. You shouldn't be fighting giant spiders early on anyway. Last I checked, you only start with 100gp, but I'm sure that was just a typo.

I spent a couple weeks fighting basic animals to build skills and met some decent folks along the way.
It was only about a month before my daughter met Staog of the Kingdom of Ascalon north of Minoc. At that point, we all started doing really well with the help of my new guildmates.

It's funny. I tell friends about this game and they look at me like I'm crazy when I explain the dangers of starting out. At a base level though, that frustrating little bit is one of the things that actually KEEPS the right kind of new players here. The kind that can take some heat without running from the kitchen. The people who want Candy Land, aren't likely to stay and be a part of the community anyway, so let them go.

I like it to be dangerous and challenging. It's really one of the biggest attractions to any game for me.....challenge.