Pros and Cons of this template...

[archaicsubrosa77]

Anatomy
Healing
Swords/Fencing/Macing
Magery
Evaluating Intelligence
Resist
Meditation

100 str/45 dex/80 intelligence

Discuss...we know the half damage at get go drawback without tactics...be 70 percent of base with anatomy...90 with strength.

I was just thinking on a variation of a healer mage...something about it having only wrestling as it's only melee bugged me. Paired with a dexxer or in "PVM" I think it would be all right.

How would you make this idea better?

[Zeppelin]

Anatomy
Healing
Swords/Fencing/Macing
Magery
Evaluating Intelligence
Resist
Meditation

100 str/45 dex/80 intelligence

Discuss...we know the half damage at get go drawback without tactics...be 70 percent of base with anatomy...90 with strength.

I was just thinking on a variation of a healer mage...something about it having only wrestling as it's only melee bugged me. Paired with a dexxer or in "PVM" I think it would be all right.

damage like you stated, when you cast you will be hit 100% of the time.

if you are paired for pvp via a dexxer you're as good as dead; if you run across a dexxer even more so. (you will be hit even cross healing via magery)

pvm isnt too relevant as the AI is pretty simple to run any half ass char and survive, if you know what you are doing.

why are you using this template, or considering it..?

[archaicsubrosa77]

Basically a field temp support character that can cross heal...or heal while mobile.
DP for fun or Macing for charged items seems a bit more fun then just having wrestling.
I have seen mage bards kill, I killed with my bard...I guess I am looking for something a little different.

More of a wingman if you know what I mean. Soloing of course I would swing out in case of danger...cause my buddies would be gone if not dead.

Just to make it clear I never propose templates for tournament useage...fair fights aren't very field and boxing someone in, crosshealing your buddy, while casting on the target (engaged with the guy who hit him ) then switching to a quicker weapon to have a better chance to interrupt/poison/drain stamina then would slapping someone silly, doesn't seem that bad.

[nightshark]

tbh i think a 0 wrestling template could work, given you use the right timing.

the problem with this template is that you have 45 int (feebleminded, 35) to play with, and your meditation is either gonna get blocked by armor or rule the template completely ineffective. you take huge damage from tank mage's hallys if you are unarmored, you are highly susceptible to death and will never have enough mana to pull off a killing combo. if you wear armor, you will just not have any mana, period, ruling 3 of your skills useless.

what you'll find, is that as you adjust this template more toward the standard tank mage (or a tank mage with anatomy instead of wrestling) is that the pros of moving even further toward a tank mage, will outweigh the cons. this era you're either a tank mage or a dexer, there are no real inbetweens if you want to be effective.

[Mikel123]

Any time you can build a template that does 1/3 the damage of everyone else in the game, you've got to do it right?

[nightshark]

Any time you can build a template that does 1/3 the damage of everyone else in the game, you've got to do it right?

lol i didnt even notice it didnt have tactics

[archaicsubrosa77]

80 intel nightshark not 45

100 percent damage with magery but a quicker though less potent weapon swing in exchange for the ability to bandage.

I mean wrestling would be even worse damage output. It's just a healer temp that exchanges that for a weapon.

[Zeppelin]

80 intel nightshark not 45

100 percent damage with magery but a quicker though less potent weapon swing in exchange for the ability to bandage.

I mean wrestling would be even worse damage output.

you dont take wrestling for damage.

you take wrestling for the disrupt and so you dont get raped by dexxers when you're at 24% trying to mini heal.

[archaicsubrosa77]

you dont take wrestling for damage.

you take wrestling for the disrupt and so you dont get raped by dexxers when you're at 24% trying to mini heal.

If you are at 24 percent you would probably chug a pot and start a bandage or if you had macing would expend a greater heal charge.

Again I am not purposing this as a tourney temp where you are fighting fair and honorably with even odds.

The whole point of the weapon is to administer Deadly poison or stamina drain with the further ability to heal. It looks more defensive but it's primary purpose is to strenghten offense in a dirty fight which usually results in the one who was first to initate the fight being the recipient to the target's counters.

The mini-heal thing is more for a one on one no pots tank mage battle where you can't help but to run into each other all the time

[Mikel123]

Deadly poison is practically useless.

Your template does no damage anyways; you may as well have wrestling instead of the weapon skill so at least you don't get disrupted 100% of the time when trying to cast.

Someone please lock this.

[archaicsubrosa77]

You don't run with ganks do you Mike?
Being able to heal while mobile, or healing another coming right up to their side while casting on a fleeing opponent saving time and mana is a nice feature.
If you think that DP is useless only because it can be cured you are missing out on alot.

If the temp was in a position to be interrupted, the target would be exposing his back to others regardless.

I think one of the main problems that many here have is they always are so solo minded. With multiple accounts and other players I think versatility trumps the go it alone attitude many have.

Of course it's oppurtunist perhaps even a cowardly role...that's part of it's charm. Run circles around the guy or circle him into a beating if he goes offensive instead of trying to escape. Divide and conquer if must be, and staying mobile is key to that.

If you want to just stand there, trade blows, click pots and bandages then yeah a dexxer is the way to go. This is more in line with field strategy. On the run, setting positions...bait,lure,trap, setting up for a dump.
If you don't run, how are you going to catch me? If you stand there...how are you going to take it?

In the confusion of battle, especially in numbers wrestling is not so dire if you have healing and Gheal pots. Who really is going to just stand there and get beat on the field? The guy mini-healing after a dump that's who. Waste a little more time curing that poison while you are staggering there. That's what we want.

Your chance to interrupt me is 0% as I play you the fool in persuit of me as I chug a pot and bandage you see. Annoyed I am sure you will turn your anger on the armored dexxer biting at your heels...empowered by the idea you drove me off but really positioning yourself where we want you.

[Spitfire]

Does cross-healing with bandies really work in the field? Serious question, I've never done it. If it does, of course that's a pro, having magery and bandies to heal.

On the con side, you really do need tactics. Maybe you could do healing with tactics over anatomy. DP is fun and will scare people, but it can be cured very easily. Without tactics though, I think your weapon damage is too low.

I won't bash your creativity, but I don't know how often some of your "pro" scenarios happen. Maybe I just need more experience in the field.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Cross healing works best when you pin a guy in or otherwise engaged in melee with him...or like I said hit the bandage and prep a spell and going in for the second wave of assault because you know the guy who offscreened is doing the same and it just saves time.

Really where healing comes in handy is when you are playing cat and mouse...you being the mouse.

Tactics would be nice...but really main damage comes from magery. You could shave off points for at least 50 tactics. The real discussion is on whether dropping wrestling for a weapon would be worth it. Choosing a bladed weapon (especially fencing) yes tactics would be nice to have, as for macing I think it could stand alone as is...and you would be a bit more mobile.

We know the damage output would be gimped as would the original healer temp would be in melee. But would the benefits of a weapon be greater then just having wrestling? The play would be different for sure, a Healer would avoid melee more I'd imagine. In both cases however neither would stay in it once targeted.

[Huzke]

The only time I've been able to use cross healing reliably is when I'm out with Ognob on our stealth archers. It takes a lot of discipline and we have to do it because Urk archers don't get to use magery so it's our only option to heal each other, it is not the most reliable, desired, or effective way to heal yourself or each other and in any other case would only be used as a supporting tactic not as something to lean on.

Cross healing in the field takes away your mobility where mobility is everything.

[archaicsubrosa77]

There are times where you can crossheal effectively. Yes but you are right, not always.
Mobility is key and that's why potions and bandaging (greater heal charges depending) is perferable then stopping to cast at times to heal.

It would follow a different suit of tactics and is not really for soloing in pvp at all...that isn't what it is meant to do. I am not suggesting that at all.

More like keeping up with the fight (or running from it) by healing on the run and feeling secure enough to cast/pre cast spells other then cures and heals more often when you feel you have a secure position to do so.

Really more then DP I would choose macing...and when you are spamming attack last on a mage with no wrestling unarmed getting ready to cast with reactive armor on you would be causing them to inflict damage on themselves. Thereby always getting hit and almost always interrupting their mini heal or other spell