Archery WTF

[Faust]

Would have to test this sometime when there is time. Was working fine when the timer was first patched in but there is always the chance something could have break after the last couple updates.

[Freeza]

Would have to test this sometime when there is time. Was working fine when the timer was first patched in but there is always the chance something could have break after the last couple updates.

So let me see if I understand what you are saying. If an archer attacks someone, they should shoot instantly, but the damage should be applied 2.25 seconds after the shot is fired? Is that correct?

[Mikel123]

Freeza, that's my understanding.

I did a bunch of trials with a stop watch and was able to see as low as 2.75 seconds, but it wasn't consistent, and I was nowhere near 2.25 sec.

[Freeza]

Freeza, that's my understanding.

I did a bunch of trials with a stop watch and was able to see as low as 2.75 seconds, but it wasn't consistent, and I was nowhere near 2.25 sec.

Are you shooting the moment you attack though, or is there a delay there as well?

[Mikel123]

Good question... I think even with the 2.75 second damages (the ideal case), there was a delay between double-clicking and actually shooting. I think this is the variable that needs fixing. But I'm not 100% sure; it happens so fast it's hard to keep track of what's going on.

[Faust]

Movement limits your swing state to a value of 1 everytime it's done. This specific state is your 'plant & shoot' feature. This takes 4 ticks to complete and start the bow animation of the actual shot entering into state 2 that takes another full 4 ticks to complete. This allows you to enter the damage state ONCE you bypass the actual weapon delay producing one more tick after the 4 ticks of state 2 are completed. This would be a total of 9 ticks in all that is equivalent of 2.25s.

Using a stop watching wouldn't be accurate in my opinion. Try using a Razor macro instead calculating the time it takes once entering combat.

Start the macro tabbed out of combatant with your heavy xbow equipped and your test opponent toggled for attack last combatant.

• Pause 15 Seconds <-- Heavy Xbows cannot be any longer.
• Attack Last Combatant
• Pause 1 Second <-- Shot should take place once this delay ends.
• Say "Shoot!"
• Pause 1.25 Seconds <--- Hit or miss should take place once this delay ends.
• Say "Damage!" <--- Damage should be applied if a successful hit landed.

Very simple to test.

Also, equipping/unequipping a bow resets your delay every single time and that must always be remembered. That is why it's necessary to tab out preventing your weapon from looping the delay without a hit/miss even taking place.


Note: The timer has a small chance to last an extra tick(as does all timers using ticks) based on the status of the processing for the server.

[Mikel123]

I'm pretty good with a stopwatch My range was something like 2.65 to 2.83 for the cluster of times I recorded around 2.75.

The macro is a good idea though.

Btw... can you refresh my memory as to what being Tabbed in (in War Mode) means to the timer?

[Sandro]

Tabbing out will halt your swing timer at the current state its in when you tabbed.

[Faust]

Btw... can you refresh my memory as to what being Tabbed in (in War Mode) means to the timer?

First, archery will shoot if you're not tabbed out defeating the purpose of testing the delays. Second, tabbing out allows your timer to continue past the weapon delay since the routine that handles swing advances only triggers when having a combatant.

The code will shift the timer back to the very beginning of state one aka the 'plant & shoot' feature for achery allowing you to pin point a precise delay from the starting process of the shot to the end. Tabbing out is a way to 'preserve' your shot from being wasted when out of range of your combatant too.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

First, archery will shoot if you're not tabbed out defeating the purpose of testing the delays. Second, tabbing out allows your timer to continue past the weapon delay since the routine that handles swing advances only triggers when having a combatant.

The code will shift the timer back to the very beginning of state one aka the 'plant & shoot' feature for achery allowing you to pin point a precise delay from the starting process of the shot to the end. Tabbing out is a way to 'preserve' your shot from being wasted when out of range of your combatant too.

This is why I am dissatisfied with the present behaviour of autodefend + archery.

SS

[Faust]

What about auto defend and archery?

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

What is wrong I don't know, but the problem is that with archery, and archery only, autodefend often does not "activate"; I pointed to this in the most-recent patch-note thread.

In that thread Derrick remarked that this is very likely tied to the initial attack ocurring out-of-range or without LOS. I think he's very likely correct; however, these same instances still activate melee-weapon autodefend. I should not have to execute some special, "artificial" action to enjoy the same benefit, as an archer; "gimped" autodefend also renders archers slightly more vulnerable to PK attacks, and this disadvantage can not be considered fair.

Regarding era-accuracy, my own knowledge is limited (I did not have any "dedicated" archers in-era; it was a "secondary" skill on a few of my characters, and these were "alt" characters on "alt" shards), but I certainly do not remember having to perform any "defibrillation" to simply get my archers to fire with auto-defend: the issue I identify here was never an issue I identified playing on OSI in-era.

There may be some other "wackiness" connected with archery timers (mikel123 supplied some odd data in the aforementioned thread), but my primary complaint is the autodefend behaviour.

SS

[Pixelclicker]

I went onto test center just now and tested this out, and sure enough, there's a delay BOTH in (1) when you fire after attacking (about the 2.5 seconds stated before) as well (2) a shorter damage delay. I confirmed it was NOT just a damage delay by putting one char 8 spaces away from the other, attacking with char A (holding a heavy Xbow) and quickly tabbing over to char b and stepping outside of range. The bolt never fired and no damage was dealt if I walked away within the initial 2.5 seconds.

Now keep in mind, both chars are on foot in this test, but to have to wait 2.5 seconds for a mounted target to stay on the screen (much less stand within 8 tiles of you) while you shoot them just isn't going to happen unless he's AFK...

This brings me to my sad second point. I've only been playing a couple weeks, so not a huge time investment thus far, but as one who (1) doesn't have an excessive amount of time to play; (2) doesn't have a fast enough connection to use the dexer/explopot solo-PK model much less keep any would-be prey from leaving playing a tank solo and (3) doesn't have the interest (much less any RL friends who still play) in participating in the 3+ harm-spam squads that operate here anyway, my ultimate end goal for playing my stealth archer/mage template to solo pk has been totally pwned.

Much thanks to the OP. I was searching the forums to find out how much damage a heavy xbow did to see if the template would even be able to deal enough damage to kill a slightly-surprised target before they scampered. Otherwise I would have wasted a buttload of time macroing, wood chopping, sheep shearing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n49U1BxZ2M) before I even got to the point of trying to train the archery up.

I assume some research has been done to verify this is "era accurate" for at least some part of the "T2A" time frame, but having played on OSI from late 97 or early 98 through about 2001 (quit shortly after the AOS patch), I can tell you they made huge sweeping changes almost weekly and I never remember archery being nerfed this badly during the entire "second age" time range. I certainly remember bows being overpowered, then nerfed, but then recalibrated all before AoS came out.

To the devs: Is there any chance this will get fixed/changed or can we expect this mechanic will be in place here for the foreseeable future?

[Roser]

Archery works fine now, as it is intended.

My only grievance is that you can off screen the damage, but this was said to be in era.

An exceptional hxbow can do 50 damage steady 65ish damage max, there is a reason archery is toned down in this era.

I use it effectively, I also see many Platemail Archers winning the 1v1 tournys. (Octaviana)

I think the Archery issue has been put to rest homie.

[MatronDeWinter]

Can you offscreen an explosion spells damage? I don't mind the rest of the changes, archers is still usable for some things at least. I am curious where the damage not being applied even after the shot is fired and the target leaves the range thing came from.