Tournament Discrepensies

[BlackFoot]

ok ill agree then, a dexxer/poisoner can use a poison potion IF he creates that potion during the match,

and a mage casting poison doesnt create anything unfair, all you have to do is cast cure

and i have won a coupel last man standings and lost a lot of em
eq in last man stnading rulez the duels at the end are between two peopel and its up to them how fast they end no one is forced to wait around

i think poisoning shoudl be allowed in those anyhting goes matches, so just have more of them,

and hitting a macro for use skill target by type macro and poisoning during a fight is super easy and not much of a disadvantage

[Flash Hardstar]

If poisoning is allowed, cure potions should be allowed. It (DP) is a gigantic advantage, and is very difficult to cure with the cure spell (like 5-8 attempts), especially when you are getting dexed in the face. This would create a large imbalance.

I disagree with customizing the rules to individual players. If we start customizing rules, why don't we allow tamers to bring dragons and thieves to steal and hide? They spent several hundred skill points on their individual skills...why can't they use them in a tourney? See where I'm going with this?

If you think dexers are at an inherent disadvantage, take a look at players like Blaine Kross. He was kicking some serious mage ass in the PvP tournament two days ago, because he was smart with casting cure and greater heal at the right times. You simply can't expect to do very well on a no-magery character in a controlled, no special item setting. Chasing a guy around a 10x10 box and hitting your bandage self key every 15 seconds isn't enough. No magery characters have always relied on magic items and potions for a competitive advantage.

I'll take this one from the top. These are quite un-legitamate arguments people continuously use to shut up these threads, and this falls under my catergory "because it would be harder to kill dexers".

DP is an advantage, however it doesnt charge everytime I hit you, sometimes up to 5 times (and in some duels I don't even get that many hits off). I have also seen it cured in one attempt. You still have not acknowledged why you getting dp'ed which you can cure, arguably in 2 seconds, is anyware as unfair as casting an almost impossible to interupt cast that cancels our heal for 40 seconds? If it takes you 4-5 tries to cure or 16 sconds - welcome to being a dexer using aids, unfair isn't it?

Mages can also heal THROUGH poison, this is not a guaranteed death for you mages. We cannot heal through poison.

The point Arcanus, is not to allow potions so the pvp is fair. What is the point of using poisoning if you can chug? Dexers wouldn't be bitching hardly at all, it would be more balanced. HOWEVER, then you allow for chugging in 1v1 which i've posted why it is pointless.

My favorite illegitamate excuse:Why dont we allow thiefs to steal and hide, or tamers to bring pets"

Letting tamers bring in pets would not make this ONE vrs ONE, but one vrs 4 or 5, and it would also not be pvp, it would be PVM. I think all classes in the game agree on this, and if you can find a legitamate argument why it should be in place, state your case - but in a few thread please.

Thiefs stealing and hiding is not pvp, thats exactly what it sounds like, stealing and hiding. Items are not lost in these events and this is why you do not steal in them. They are PvP skill based. However, as much as I hate thiefs, I can see a legitamate thread why they should be able to steal but thats for another argument - let's stay on topic.

The rules are already customized in advantage to the tank mage. Arcanus, you know this I see you in all the tournaments, and I've stated why they should be re-customized.

I'm sure Blaine is a great pvper, but the fact of the matter is, hes not a full dexer. He had to add in magery, MAGE MAGE MAGE, into his template just so he could compete in these tournaments. I can't belivee you would say "you can't expect to do well in a controlled setting". Have you read this post? it is arguing the controlled settings are inherintly beyond an extreme ADVANTAGE to mages, so I don't know why you would state this...Robbo the hood is also a great player, but they've had to put magery in their template because of the rules, and still these guys don't ever win arcanus.

And last but not least, no, I don't completely rely on potions and magic weapons. I would do just fine in these setting with GM made weapons and armor and bandages, so as long as my heals werent cancelled arguably at the will of any mage, any time for 40 seconds.

[Flash Hardstar]

ok ill agree then, a dexxer/poisoner can use a poison potion IF he creates that potion during the match,

and a mage casting poison doesnt create anything unfair, all you have to do is cast cure

and i have won a coupel last man standings and lost a lot of em
eq in last man stnading rulez the duels at the end are between two peopel and its up to them how fast they end no one is forced to wait around

i think poisoning shoudl be allowed in those anyhting goes matches, so just have more of them,

and hitting a macro for use skill target by type macro and poisoning during a fight is super easy and not much of a disadvantage

Even at GM poisoning you can fail and poison yourself while attempting to poison your weapon, so it can be. Also, if a mage casts poison, yes it does cause a problem - DEXERS DONT CAST SPELLS! we have to wait out almost 40 secons to get a heal in.

[BlackFoot]

for the record ive won more tournaments on my dexxer than on my mage
these events are not rule set so that mages have the upperhand,
mages have the upperhand because they have more powerful characters during the t2a era with more dynamics and options
if you are a dexxer in a 1v1 tourny and you cant figeur out what to do when a mage casts poison, you dont deserve to have a chance to win in a pvp match because you arent very good at pvp or your character isnt built for pvp
a dexxer with no magery has no chance in a 1v1 tourny
changing the rules of the system so that a character who isnt built for pvp can win the tournament doesnt make sense

DEXXERS DONT CAST SPELLS <-- tahts the dexxers fault not your opponents fault maybe have a no magic spells allowed tournament for you guys

[Ronk]

DEXXERS DONT CAST SPELLS <-- tahts the dexxers fault not your opponents fault maybe have a no magic spells allowed tournament for you guys

The problem with your argument is that its only accurate because of the rule set. If you allowed stealing in tournaments then I could steal your nightshade and put you out of the fight...its not my fault you got to close to me. But stealing is banned.

If I had a poisoned weapon then I could stab you and watch you squirm while you try to cure yourself. Its not my problem you can't cure yourself.

If we allowed magical weapons then I could stab you with my vanq broadsword. Its not my fault you chose a mage template that relies on weapons less.

If you can't kill someone who is using potions thats your problem, not the enemies problem for using the potions.

And my personal favorite. If I hide and you dont' have detect hidden or don't wanna waste 20 mana to reveal me thats your problem...you could easily put detect on your template.

The problem is the rule set for the 1v1 tournament is focused on one template...mages. Most things that make other templates viable are banned. And the argument of "well get magery" is silly.

[BlackFoot]

most that doesnt work
if you want to bring a thief i will bring a lock box and win
if you have poisoned weapons i have poisoned weapons

if you get vanq weps, i get vanq weps
im a mage i can rock a vanq hally and ruin

this is about poisoning, and poisoning uses pots, if you get to use pots than so does everyone else
and you cant hide when you are in combat with somone clsoe to you
so i would just spam attack target when wall falls i attack you and you cant hide

these arguements are invalid
as i said, if you dont have a pvp char, you shoudlnt win a pvp tournament
and if you think pvp requires no magery than you need to go pvp and realize that you do
i win on my dexer cause i have magery and can cure myself so my bandages are effective

[Arcanus]

Flash, you're exactly right. These tournaments are about PvP skill. Playing a dexer requires significantly less skill. Do you honestly expect to have a substantial chance at beating skilled PvPers when your only defense are bandages? While a mage has to time and prep his insta-hits, conserve his mana, and formulate his combos, you use the right mouse button to chase a guy, and hit a bandage key every fifteen seconds, completely at the mercy of a 50% chance to hit. The fact that you don't use magery is the true source of your PvP woes.

You're the one crying because "mages are too hard to kill" and wants these events changed to suit your gimp template. The best dexers have *always* had magery for those clutch heals and cures.

There's a reason why these tournaments have been engineered the way they have. Nobody wants to watch two dex monkies sit next to each other auto defending, or one dex monkey chasing a mage around for 10 minutes while he constantly heals himself. Everyone's seen the way spectators react during these duels; it's deathly boring and displays no skill. That's not to say playing a "melee-centric" character is not viable, it's just not encouraged by design, because if the rules were changed to suit your purposes, events would be a "dex-off" which no one would spectate and no mages would bother to attend.

If poisoning is allowed, you can bring as many pots as you want, and the application gives you ~18 charges. You are in serious denial if you think it's easy to cure DP with the cure spell. Each one of a mage's failed attempts to cure DP costs them 9 mana, sapping away their ability to do other defensive or offensive maneuvers. This is not considering the fact that the dexer continues to beat them on them, further hurting and interrupting the mage.

Here's the fundamental difference between the two classes: you can interrupt a mage's spells (despite your selective memory), while your swings are not interruptable at all, and cost no resource to you whatsoever. A mage's life-blood is mana, which is precious and easily used. Your life-blood is stamina, which you have an unlimited supply of due to unlimited food usage. Bandages cost nothing and can be applied on the move.

In conclusion, stop complaining and adapt.

[Derrick]

I hadn't considered this for only those characters which have poisoning skill, I guess this is why this has been thrown out in the past. I can Allow or Disallow poisoning, and/or pots, but to get into wiping all the poison of blades at match start just seems a little much to me. I'd much prefer to discuss this in terms or either allowing poison use or not.

Same kind of thing goes for modifying Provoke difficulty in Survival. This just incredibly complicates things, I really prefer to keep the rules simple in these games when possible.

[BlackFoot]

i vote they can use poisoning skill, but cnat use pots
and have class battle survival games
like a no magery game
a no bard game ect
anything goes game

[Flash Hardstar]

Once again, you are argueing "dexers are to hard to kill". What most of you are failing to realize is the game mechanics DO NOT say you cant use poisoning, this is a game master run event. As for Blackfoot saying it isnt a pvp template, LOL @ that where have u been, you think I have poisoning for shits and giggles? i use it constantly. It IS a pvp template. maybe you have a failure to recognize it isnt in tournmanets because of the ruleset to them, NOT GAME MECHANICS. Dexers do not, absolutely do not win tournaments more than mages, if at all. P.s. we only have a 50/50 to hit you guys, your spells hit everytime, rarely resisted. the argument is for poisoning in duels. not who can kill who.

[venox]

i also vote to allow the use of poisoning skill within events.
but not pre-poisoned blades.
as you can tell by my profile name i would take advantage of this.

[BlackFoot]

im all for allowing poisoning tournys, just not being allowed to use pots
if you get to use poison potiosn to poison me, i get to drink cure pots to cure myself
pots for pots is only fair way

as for dexers nto winning this tournament, thats becasue they are all playing the tournaments on their mages
because it is more fun and take smore thought and skill
its not very satisying to kill somone with a dexxer after youv done it with a mage

[Arcanus]

What I am trying to explain is that your comparisons between bandages and swords to spells is an egregious logical fallacy. Are you seriously so out of touch that you conveniently ignore that while an ebolt does an instant 8-36 damage or so, it also takes 20% of the mage's mana, while weapon swings cost nothing? They both have their merits and trade-offs, risk vs. reward. The smart player uses both. What you fail to realize is that the term "dexer" is not synonymous with having no magery. Your biggest problem, besides your refusal to accept this fact, is your obstinance in thinking that a character without magery should stand a proper chance at winning one of these tournaments.

The "game mechanics" you refer to mean nothing in a contrived and completely controlled environment designed to remove the elements which are imbalanced for 1v1 and dilute the player-skill factor. By virtue of your argument, then, the "game mechanics" allow magic items, potions, summons, etc., so anything should go. Obviously, this is not the case. There are many valid PvP templates, and dexers with no magery are low on the totem pole.

I think a properly played dexer with magery is potentially the most powerful template for these 1v1 tournaments. A dexer who effectively used multiple weapons, double hits, and magery for cures, and occasional heals and disrupts would completely dominate.

Mark my words: allowing DP without allowing cure potions is an EVENT BREAKING change. It will replace the meaning of the tournament from "who is the most skilled" to "who can DP first and most often".

[Flash Hardstar]

im all for allowing poisoning tournys, just not being allowed to use pots
if you get to use poison potiosn to poison me, i get to drink cure pots to cure myself
pots for pots is only fair way

as for dexers nto winning this tournament, thats becasue they are all playing the tournaments on their mages
because it is more fun and take smore thought and skill
its not very satisying to kill somone with a dexxer after youv done it with a mage

They are playing their mages because warriors dont win. LOL!

[Flash Hardstar]

What I am trying to explain is that your comparisons between bandages and swords to spells is an egregious logical fallacy. Are you seriously so out of touch that you conveniently ignore that while an ebolt does an instant 8-36 damage or so, it also takes 20% of the mage's mana, while weapon swings cost nothing? They both have their merits and trade-offs, risk vs. reward. The smart player uses both. What you fail to realize is that the term "dexer" is not synonymous with having no magery. Your biggest problem, besides your refusal to accept this fact, is your obstinance in thinking that a character without magery should stand a proper chance at winning one of these tournaments.

The "game mechanics" you refer to mean nothing in a contrived and completely controlled environment designed to remove the elements which are imbalanced for 1v1 and dilute the player-skill factor. By virtue of your argument, then, the "game mechanics" allow magic items, potions, summons, etc., so anything should go. Obviously, this is not the case. There are many valid PvP templates, and dexers with no magery are low on the totem pole.

I think a properly played dexer with magery is potentially the most powerful template for these 1v1 tournaments. A dexer who effectively used multiple weapons, double hits, and magery for cures, and occasional heals and disrupts would completely dominate.

Mark my words: allowing DP without allowing cure potions is an EVENT BREAKING change. It will replace the meaning of the tournament from "who is the most skilled" to "who can DP first and most often".

I still feel like you havent bothered to read my original post. You sound like one of those mages so terrified they wont be able to kill dexers like they are a joke. You still haven't made any legitamate claims, or responded to the fact that a mage can poison, but its not ok for a warrior to poison. Thanks Senator McCain for your well thought out, one sided input.

DP is not incureable, I fought adonis for 45 minutes today and he cured plenty of them. You sit here and claim i'm not acknowleding anything, but oh sir I am, like I said, read my original post. and adress the topics, you are straying to far to what is the elite pvper to should poisoning be allowed in game and why it is fair for a mage to use poisoning and a warrior not to. There is still, yet to be a logical argument against poisoning in these except the ones arcanus is posting, which I already stated in my original post not to bother doing.
"dont tell me to make a mage" - original post, dont tell everyone to put magery on their characters.
"don't tell me dexers would be harder to kill" - original post, and you argued that at the end of this post.