Tournament Suggestions, please discuss/give feedback

[Grom]

well, I've been playing here for a good 2 months + now, as have a few of my friends, but there's a couple easy fixes that would seemingly make some stuff a lot better, and I can't help but wonder why they haven't been done. If anyone has some insight as to why these things are the way they are, please let us know, otherwise, we can't help be wonder why they haven't been changed to something like this yet.


Problem: Why is the only "magic weapons/armor allowed" tournament so early? Every other tournament is at a reasonable time some time in the afternoon or at night, yet there is only that allows magic weapons and armor, I have to wake up super early for. Maybe it's not super early for some people, but for me and many of my friends, if we're awake that early it means we either have work, class, or some other reason not to be sleeping in, not to wake up early for the only magic weapon/armor tourny. As someone who plays a fighter primarily, personally I hate this, since I can't use my normal full potential in a fight without the real gear I roll with. It would be nice if some of the other things like deathmatch and survival had nighttime hours too, I've never played either of these modes once since I've joined this server.

Solution: have a nighttime hour and a morning hour for each event type sometime throughout the week, giving everyone an opportunity to play them.



Problem: Why do a lot of the tourny rules have a "no poison" rule, yet magic poisons are still allowed? This seems to make no sense to me other than to remove any fighter build that isn't also a med warrior hybrid to keep himself healed/cured. Any fighter just gets poison spammed to cancel his bandages, in a "no poison" fight, and cure pots are disabled. This has to be the worst rule I've ever heard of, if you have rules say no poisons so warriors can't poison there weapons, why on earth do you allow mages to spam magic poison, it's the worst concept I've ever heard of.

Solution: Actually disable all poison types for the "no poison" ruleset, I've seen other spells get disabled in events, I'm sure it can't be hard to disable poison for a tourny.


If anyone has any reason why either of these things shouldn't be done, please discuss, because we can't see a reason why they're set the way they are now. If your against the addition of events, because it's not "era accurate", please realize that this server will never be an exact copy of the game you played 13 years ago, and that events are generally a high demand thing that adds to the flavor of the server, especially a server with a ruleset as old as this that doesn't have other means of active pvp such as factions. I'm of course excluding order/chaos factions as a means of active pvp, as our latest test of this system, ended up to be a major disappointment (and just made us wish there were real faction wars). I won't rant about it here, but anyone who's fought in order and chaos probably already knows how broken/boring it is. I'm also obviously excluding pk'ing noobs and bards in dungeons as a form of active pvp, that's more of pvr (player vs recall).

[nightshark]

Add another:
Instead of sudden death, which completely kills the spirit of the entire duel, is it possible to reduce heal values across the board? IE when sudden death timer kicks in, reduce all forms of healing by 10% for the first 2 minutes, 20% for the next 2 minutes, 30%.. and so forth

Generally the huge amounts healed by mini are what stops the duel from ending.. just gradually reduce the values and the duel will end

[Faust]

If anyone has any reason why either of these things shouldn't be done, please discuss, because we can't see a reason why they're set the way they are now.

There is an easy answer to this question... The majority of people from both the original t2a era and this shard agree upon that same default ruleset that was set in stone well over a decade ago.

Quite simple if you ask me.

Lobby for a different tourney ruleset if you want your own...

[dimensional]

I actually agree with both of his suggestions, honestly. The points he makes towards the fighter builds being limited are very true, in field PvP you would very rarely see a dexxer with no good magic gear go toe to toe against a half decent tank, at least in a solo match. The tank templates already dominate, which is acceptable and even preferable since this is the era we like, however even further limiting the pure warriors just makes it a laughing matter to try to compete.

[Grom]

If anyone has any reason why either of these things shouldn't be done, please discuss, because we can't see a reason why they're set the way they are now.

There is an easy answer to this question... The majority of people from both the original t2a era and this shard agree upon that same default ruleset that was set in stone well over a decade ago.

Quite simple if you ask me.

Lobby for a different tourney ruleset if you want your own...

Simple? One of the rules is incredibly contradictory for seemingly no reason other than to make it easy mode for mages to keep fighters perma-poisoned, in a "no poison" ruleset. The other isn't asking for a different tourney, it's asking for morning/nighttime hours for the current ones, as some events I've never played in the 2 months here, and never will, if I have to be awake at some of these incredibly off hours. Saying its the way it is because of "tradition", because a "decade" ago it was decided "it shall be", doesn't make sense either, the server isn't a decade old, nor is it set in stone (we just had ctf changes to EQ this week), nor is the pvp mechanics/strategy some static thing that hasn't changed since the original t2a days, people have much more efficient builds on this server and know how to exploit flaws in the system (double hally whack, wrestle exploit, 7x gm).

I'm sure there are PLENTY of changes to come, but saying that automated tournament rules are a decade old, for real? If I'm not mistaken, automated tournaments didn't happen at all, so where you coming up with this nonsense? If you have anything insightful or helpful to add to the topic, it would be preferred, but if your answer is "well me and my hally mage buddies used to duel back in the day, but any fighter that came by wasn't allowed to use cure pots so we could poison spam him, and he couldn't use poison weapons either", lol, really?

[Faust]

My response wasn't addressing the differentials of the current timeframes for any of the events including tourneys.

Please try to follow me on the other part this time...

The 'rules' for regular 1v1 and GvG's is a ruleset that was in use during the '99 era for standard duels. No one said anything about automated tourneys existing in '99 and that would be completely absurd in the first place. This same 'ruleset' that was widely accepted in '99 is also accepted with the majority of the pvper's here on this shard.

The rule with poison is based on 'no poison weapons' not 'no poison' for the duel. This rule is much similar to 'no magics', etc... The standard ruleset is based on the principal that it's the most skilled ruleset available for competitive dueling by removing 'item based pvp' for the fight. Yes, this may be an opinion on this matter. However, it's widely accepted among most duelists and has been for over a decade now.

Please lobby for another ruleset if you are looking for a different ruleset. Most people want the standard ruleset that produces the most competitive style of dueling in the game that has been around for many years now.

The timeframes is an entirely different issue and that isn't something of my concern.

[Grom]

The 'rules' for regular 1v1 and GvG's is a ruleset that was in use during the '99 era for standard duels. No one said anything about automated tourneys existing in '99 and that would be completely absurd in the first place. This same 'ruleset' that was widely accepted in '99 is also accepted with the majority of the pvper's here on this shard.

Please lobby for another ruleset if you are looking for a different ruleset. Most people want the standard ruleset that produces the most competitive style of dueling in the game that has been around for many years now.

So a completely outdated and imbalanced ruleset in favor of a specific build that is accepted by the majority (surprise there, almost EVERYONE here is a hally mage or forced to make one), is reason to keep it terribly imbalanced? I don't need a "new tournament type" or anything, any tourny that allows the use of potions negates the poison problem for a warrior, it's just that the NO POISON fights consist entirely of poisoning fighters to death, which is very contradictory, not to mention a fighter is insanely crippled by poison since they rely on bandages for the majority of healing, and unequipping to cast cure leads to a perfect hally combo for a mage and re-poison to avoid any chance of them healing. I don't know why you would consider that "competitive pvp", I think the word your looking for is easy mode.

[son]

The 'rules' for regular 1v1 and GvG's is a ruleset that was in use during the '99 era for standard duels. No one said anything about automated tourneys existing in '99 and that would be completely absurd in the first place. This same 'ruleset' that was widely accepted in '99 is also accepted with the majority of the pvper's here on this shard.

Please lobby for another ruleset if you are looking for a different ruleset. Most people want the standard ruleset that produces the most competitive style of dueling in the game that has been around for many years now.

So a completely outdated and imbalanced ruleset in favor of a specific build that is accepted by the majority (surprise there, almost EVERYONE here is a hally mage or forced to make one), is reason to keep it terribly imbalanced? I don't need a "new tournament type" or anything, any tourny that allows the use of potions negates the poison problem for a warrior, it's just that the NO POISON fights consist entirely of poisoning fighters to death, which is very contradictory, not to mention a fighter is insanely crippled by poison since they rely on bandages for the majority of healing, and unequipping to cast cure leads to a perfect hally combo for a mage and re-poison to avoid any chance of them healing. I don't know why you would consider that "competitive pvp", I think the word your looking for is easy mode.

You are perfectly capable of using wizardry as a warrior to cast poison as well? Or cure even?

Additionally, using poison versus a dexer with gm resist is very risky. I cant imagine too many wizards even bothering to attempt it. How high is your resist Grom?

PS, you should probably focus on MB (NEA), likely what you see much more often versus dexers than poison spam

[Grom]

The 'rules' for regular 1v1 and GvG's is a ruleset that was in use during the '99 era for standard duels. No one said anything about automated tourneys existing in '99 and that would be completely absurd in the first place. This same 'ruleset' that was widely accepted in '99 is also accepted with the majority of the pvper's here on this shard.

Please lobby for another ruleset if you are looking for a different ruleset. Most people want the standard ruleset that produces the most competitive style of dueling in the game that has been around for many years now.

So a completely outdated and imbalanced ruleset in favor of a specific build that is accepted by the majority (surprise there, almost EVERYONE here is a hally mage or forced to make one), is reason to keep it terribly imbalanced? I don't need a "new tournament type" or anything, any tourny that allows the use of potions negates the poison problem for a warrior, it's just that the NO POISON fights consist entirely of poisoning fighters to death, which is very contradictory, not to mention a fighter is insanely crippled by poison since they rely on bandages for the majority of healing, and unequipping to cast cure leads to a perfect hally combo for a mage and re-poison to avoid any chance of them healing. I don't know why you would consider that "competitive pvp", I think the word your looking for is easy mode.

You are perfectly capable of using wizardry as a warrior to cast poison as well? Or cure even?

Additionally, using poison versus a dexer with gm resist is very risky. I cant imagine too many wizards even bothering to attempt it. How high is your resist Grom?

PS, you should probably focus on MB (NEA), likely what you see much more often versus dexers than poison spam

I have gm resist, poisons rarely get resisted, and yes I can cast cure, but far less than they can re-poison, not to mention casting cure in itself just ends up with a hally in your face as warriors aren't wrestling experts. A fighter can only significantly heal once every 15-18'sh seconds anyway with bandages, ruining one of those heals mean death to a warrior, unequipping to try and cast and facing a hally combo to the face also leads to death, it makes no sense why in a "no poison" fight mages completely shut down any warrior from entering by keeping them poison locked to prevent bandage healing.

If your telling me to poison a mage, I hope you're not serious. The reason why it's detrimental to a fighter in these "no poison duels" is because the only way to remove it is to either wait 18 seconds for your bandages to cure it (if you haven't already died within those 18 seconds), or attempt to cast cure which generally ends up with you getting hally whack combo'd and dead as well, not to mention they immediatly re-poison you to block your heal.

Sometimes I think the veteran players on this server have played a hally mage for so long that they've completely forgotten what it's like to play non-hallymage related characters. Not that I can blame them, any pvp outside of being a Hally mage is extremely gimped in this era, warriors don't have any skills, special hit chances, can't swing on the run, it's all just chase/stop/swing and hope for good dice rolls, which really everything boils down to lucky dice rolling fighter or mage. However this "no poison" ruleset prohibits fighters from competing by removing any means of healing while a mage can spam their minor heal all day long, to me it only makes sense to remove poisoning entirely from the duels in this ruleset, unless someone has some serious evidence as to why it shouldn't be or how it is balanced/fair.

[Faust]

Resisting poison at 100 resist is roughly around a 70% chance...

Again, leave the standard ruleset out of the equation... it's not going to change based on the fact that is what the majority wants here just like they did back in the day. You are not the first to try lobbying a change on this default ruleset and definitely won't be the last. However, trust me... nothing is going to change with it. Accept that fact or lobby for your own tourney ruleset. You are just wasting your time by trying to get this changed just like the rest before you.

A dexer is fully capable of winning against a standard tank mage in this ruleset...

[son]

The 'rules' for regular 1v1 and GvG's is a ruleset that was in use during the '99 era for standard duels. No one said anything about automated tourneys existing in '99 and that would be completely absurd in the first place. This same 'ruleset' that was widely accepted in '99 is also accepted with the majority of the pvper's here on this shard.

Please lobby for another ruleset if you are looking for a different ruleset. Most people want the standard ruleset that produces the most competitive style of dueling in the game that has been around for many years now.

So a completely outdated and imbalanced ruleset in favor of a specific build that is accepted by the majority (surprise there, almost EVERYONE here is a hally mage or forced to make one), is reason to keep it terribly imbalanced? I don't need a "new tournament type" or anything, any tourny that allows the use of potions negates the poison problem for a warrior, it's just that the NO POISON fights consist entirely of poisoning fighters to death, which is very contradictory, not to mention a fighter is insanely crippled by poison since they rely on bandages for the majority of healing, and unequipping to cast cure leads to a perfect hally combo for a mage and re-poison to avoid any chance of them healing. I don't know why you would consider that "competitive pvp", I think the word your looking for is easy mode.

You are perfectly capable of using wizardry as a warrior to cast poison as well? Or cure even?

Additionally, using poison versus a dexer with gm resist is very risky. I cant imagine too many wizards even bothering to attempt it. How high is your resist Grom?

PS, you should probably focus on MB (NEA), likely what you see much more often versus dexers than poison spam

I have gm resist, poisons rarely get resisted, and yes I can cast cure, but far less than they can re-poison, not to mention casting cure in itself just ends up with a hally in your face as warriors aren't wrestling experts. A fighter can only significantly heal once every 15-18'sh seconds anyway with bandages, ruining one of those heals mean death to a warrior, unequipping to try and cast and facing a hally combo to the face also leads to death, it makes no sense why in a "no poison" fight mages completely shut down any warrior from entering by keeping them poison locked to prevent bandage healing.

If your telling me to poison a mage, I hope you're not serious. The reason why it's detrimental to a fighter in these "no poison duels" is because the only way to remove it is to either wait 18 seconds for your bandages to cure it (if you haven't already died within those 18 seconds), or attempt to cast cure which generally ends up with you getting hally whack combo'd and dead as well, not to mention they immediatly re-poison you to block your heal.

Sometimes I think the veteran players on this server have played a hally mage for so long that they've completely forgotten what it's like to play non-hallymage related characters. Not that I can blame them, any pvp outside of being a Hally mage is extremely gimped in this era, warriors don't have any skills, special hit chances, can't swing on the run, it's all just chase/stop/swing and hope for good dice rolls, which really everything boils down to lucky dice rolling fighter or mage. However this "no poison" ruleset prohibits fighters from competing by removing any means of healing while a mage can spam their minor heal all day long, to me it only makes sense to remove poisoning entirely from the duels in this ruleset, unless someone has some serious evidence as to why it shouldn't be or how it is balanced/fair.

Poison gets resisted more often than not with gm resist.

I choose to play a mage more often because "warriors" are boring, but they are not gimped. Perhaps your template needs assistance? I have 2 dexers that I rarely play, one won the warrior tournament.

Additionally, the free food tourney with no pots certainly favors mages. I have argued that non free use tourneys (without rules, or simply with no magics) are the middle ground for fighting templates to occur. Recently, 1v1 tournaments with free use pots heavily favored dexers, and it was corrected to be non free use.

You should actually be thankful that there are different types of 1v1 tournaments, because not long ago it used to be stricly no pots free food free reg use 1v1.

[Grom]

Faust - Poison takes almost no mana and almost no cast time, and I would argue that the resist is off.

I'll go buy some nightshade and test with a larger pool later, but after 25 casts from a gm mage/eval against a gm resist fighter, 14 poisons succeeded, 11 failed.

Keep in mind that in these tournies, being poisoned makes it impossible to heal unless your some med warrior hybrid and not a pure dexer, and if you try to unequip to cast a cure, your a guarenteed target to a hally whack combo against any competent pvper and likely to die or come close to dieing the second you try as you stand 0 chance of avoiding their hally, at which point they can easily respam poison to keep your heal from going off anyway.

I just fail to see the logic of keeping fighters out of this ruleset by insisting that these rules are somehow fair in a "no poison" fight. If you think dexers can compete in this faust, start playing a dexer, because they're always eliminated in the first couple of fights everytime I've been to a tourny in this ruleset, which has been mostly these no poison tourneys due to time constraints and other rulesets not available when I'm around.

Son - Yeah, I'm also glad that there are other tourney types, I consider myself a major fan of tournaments in general, I wish I could be around for more of the other modes. It would be preferable to have more of these tournaments throughout the week, both with nightime/morning hours so everyone would get a chance to play them, as it stands right now I've barely touched half of these events with some of the hours they're active.

Warriors got less boring as UO progressed with the introduction of diff skills and special hit chances, but even without those things I enjoy the rush of just chasing someone down and smashing their face with a mace, or whatever weapon I happen to be using. Everyone has something they enjoy, I just think some of the changes/rules/events on this server cater so strongly to one play type that the population suffers greatly because of this. It also doesn't help that people claim no hit while on the run and infinite mount stam all follow me exploits are both era accurate and desirable, as it makes any field fight an endless chase for a fighter who isn't chucking a million purple pots or has a magical infinite stash of teleport rings, but that's another rant all together.

Let me put it this way, when I first came to this server, I saw an event that said "no poisons" "no magick" "no pots" etc, and I was like, sweet, sounds perfect to practice pvp with my starting warrior, some buddies came to watch/my roommate swiveled away from his desk to check it out to see if he should bring his warrior. When you're first teleported to the arena, something thats hard to miss is the abundance of robe wearers and hallys everywhere, hmm. Then, you quickly realize they mean no magic equipment, no poisoned weapons, no cure pots, and you sit there stupified for a moment in the arena as the actuality of the ruleset sinks in and you pray for the luckiest dice rolls on the planet to save you or even stand the slightest chance of winning. I'm not complaining about the misleading description for a new player though, I just want it to be a more even playing field for other character types vs its current ruleset, and the only arguement I've heard against it is "it's the way it should be because people want it that way and it used to be that way back in 99", however, it's 2010 and people have come a long way from what UO was actually like back in 99, it would make more sense to have some more balance in an automated event like this.

edit
also if you are interested in my template/want to give any tips, this is his current build, all gm
-macing
-parry
-tactics
-anatomy
-healing
-resist
-50 magery/hiding

I pick up the parry and an order shield (order for cool looks, I know chaos shields give an additional 1 ar) to try and negate some hally damage and have a war axe in the other hand for the fastest macing type weapon (parry also helps greatly against the rare chance of fighting a non-mage opponent). It generally leaves me with 44 AR and some good damage each swing I can pull off. In these no poison tourney types, I generally have my shield toggled off unless I see my opponent pop his hally, and have occasionally tried a quarter staff instead, to easily unequip cast a cure. Any cure I've ever cast against a good player though, as I said, ends up with a hally to the face followed by a nuke combo and/or re-poisoning instantly. Trying to ignore the poison and continue fighting blows your chance at healing at all, and you just get re-poisoned after you cure it with bandages. I find it ironic that in a no poison fight, the biggest thing holding a fighter back is poisoning.

[Derrick]

I'm happly to adjust tourney rules and times, the tournaments and events haven't had a lot of attention for some time now and we've actually done little but cut back on them in many months. I'l continue to watch this thread and try to come up with something new. In the meantime i'll also shuffle the schedule a little.