No-gain Detect Hidden

[Mens Rea]

Detect hidden was set up not to gain inside a house. I remember it, and so do people in 1999 it would seem. Ask Raph Koster, he's the one who put it in.

Actually, you do need to do this if you want the no-gain, 100% detect hidden
to work. And if you don't do DH when you are on your steps and enter your
house, you are inviting looters.

All char's on an account have access to secure's, but the DH doesn't work.

Kheldar, Atlantic

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... ect+hidden# - Oct 18 1999

What he means ( and if you own a house on any server you can test this) is
that you gain dex from using detect hidden in your house. Yet it always
succeeds if you are the house's owner, and it will never go up as long as
you are the owner. i.e.- macro "detect hidden" all day and what you're
effectively doing is macroing "gain dexterity" instead.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 725649ae89 - May 25 1999

> Another player and I share a small house across all of our characters.
> With this stealth skill it means we have only 200 stone each of secure
> storage in that house. Desiring a bit more storage than that isn't
> exactly hoarding.

> I guess I will have to detect hidden every time I walk into my house.
> That's a skillcap wrecker if there ever was one.

> Strife/Trouble
> SBR

According to OSI, a house owner using Detect Hidden in their own house
will not raise the skill, but will reveal anyone in the house.

I'm sick and tired of all this whinning say that this skill will ruin the
game, and that "I'm not going to train in Detect Hidden" read update.owo.com

If you own or are a friend to the house, and use detect hidden they will be
revealed no matter what your skill and it will not raise the skill, that
should fix everything y'all are complaining about..

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 220667dcb4 - Feb 26 1999

[Derrick]

Thanks much, fixing now. Same issue with Hiding.

[Kaivan]

This is also supported by a direct quote from DD in the 2/25/99 HoC chat:

Glamdring - *Primis_* is there any way to protect your house from someone who is in stealth mode, to prevent them from breaking in?
DesignerD - Use detect hidden tomorrow. It will automatically reveal everyone in your house, without affecting your skill level.

[Mens Rea]

This is also supported by a direct quote from DD in the 2/25/99 HoC chat

Where abouts can I find the archives of HoC chat?

[Dagon]

is there a difference in any way of what the target is while this happens? meaning, if you target yourself or the house floor (to detect) vs targetting a trapped chest, does it make a difference or is the skill absolutely not going to gain in your house?

[Mikel123]

Wait wait wait... I'm not sure I buy this.

Throughout UO, the rule has been, "If you have 100% chance of succeeding a skill check, you will not gain skill from it". So it completely makes sense to not gain skill from Detect Hidden in a house where you're just looking for hidden people. BUT... if you're detecting traps, you don't have a 100% chance of success, even in your house.

Maybe these guys were lazy, and just applied a blanket rule - if you're in your house, no skill gain at all. But I would be more likely to assume that either (a) you also were then given a 100% chance to detect traps on stuff in your house, or (b) you actually did have a chance to gain when detecting traps, since you have some chance of failing.

[Mens Rea]

Just unfriend your character from the house.

Done.

[Rammar]

This is also supported by a direct quote from DD in the 2/25/99 HoC chat

Where abouts can I find the archives of HoC chat?

http://uohoc.stratics.com/

[Mens Rea]

http://uohoc.stratics.com/

Cheers

[Derrick]

Maybe these guys were lazy, and just applied a blanket rule - if you're in your house, no skill gain at all. But I would be more likely to assume that either (a) you also were then given a 100% chance to detect traps on stuff in your house, or (b) you actually did have a chance to gain when detecting traps, since you have some chance of failing.

I understand your question, and that is why I set it up this way initially using that logic. However the logic that also applies here is that there were no skill locks when this was introduced. Detect hidden in a house was designed for home security. Without skill locks you'd be saying goodbye to that GM Eval every-time you came home.

[Mikel123]

Maybe these guys were lazy, and just applied a blanket rule - if you're in your house, no skill gain at all. But I would be more likely to assume that either (a) you also were then given a 100% chance to detect traps on stuff in your house, or (b) you actually did have a chance to gain when detecting traps, since you have some chance of failing.

I understand your question, and that is why I set it up this way initially using that logic. However the logic that also applies here is that there were no skill locks when this was introduced. Detect hidden in a house was designed for home security. Without skill locks you'd be saying goodbye to that GM Eval every-time you came home.

Hmmm... I can see how that would put an issue with scenario (b), making it unlikely. So as I see it, we're kind of debating between:

(1) blanket no-gain of DH in your house
(2) blanket 100% chance of success of DH in your house (for both hidden people, and trapped chests)

Doesn't much matter either way in practical terms, I'm just curious how you think the original designers approached these problems and fixed them. My intuition would be that (2) sounds more likely to have been the case.