Please don't remove guild chat, here's why.

[MatronDeWinter]

It's interesting to me that the Seer added add-ons serve a point and are quite reasonable, where as here well, lol. "duel pit plz". The only part of what hemperor said that I agree with, is that the events and g-chat are seperate topics. It does however, serve as an excelent example for "era-accuracy". Nobody here has any right claiming "Absolutely not! thats NEA", when they are pro "events/silver".

Removing guildchat will degrade my playing experience. I think it's entertaining that the only people who are pro-removal are those who enjoy leet vent-synced combat. It's almost like hemperor knows he cannot compete with virtually anyone else in game, on a competitive level, so he spends his time trying to get "all kill" removed.

The whole "era-accuracy" argument was tossed out the door a long time ago, and rapidly this is becomming a pre-UO:R/UO:R server, with a couple of T2A mechanics.

[Pro]

I think it's entertaining that the only people who are pro-removal are those who enjoy leet vent-synced combat

not a day goes by i don't see blackfoot out on the field syncing people with his 12 man guild...



idiot.

[Boudoir]

You have created UOR in our fine shard

+1

Patch after patch, UOSA becomes an UO:R shard with T2A pvp.

Sad.

[DarpaekJegier]

It seems the problem is bots for guild chat. Why not just allow one client on at a time not allowing people to have three clients open at one time. Easy fix for the bot problem is simply having one account allowed at a time.

[Blackbeard]

First and foremost, GM controlled events did occur. However there were never capture the flag, double domination, or separated arenas. Nor were there ever any events without the risk of losing EVERYTHING you had on your character.

Additionally, communication crystals are not a viable alternative, are prone to failure, and require the two people to meet and link them together for them to function properly.

Not everyone uses IRC, ICQ, MSN, Ventrillo, RW, ETC. We should not force them to.

Nobody here has any right claiming "Absolutely not! thats NEA", when they are pro "events/silver".

The fact that there are different kinds of events is a red herring and has nothing to do with EA. Whether I'm playing a GM-Run 1v1 tournament or an event where I'm playing "pick up the item in a turnip field north of Britain" is completely unrelated to the mechanics of T2A. It's a policy decision of, "Should we allow looting during this event?" if the game takes place outside of the regular fields just as it is a policy decision of "Should we give event rewards to people for other in-game items?" It's not like they're saying, "Okay, since you won the tournament, you get 1 free [kill command to use." I guess a viable argument for getting rid of all event rewards is that they affect the "in-game economy", which is can still hardly be considered a mechanical part of game-play. What does the price of a turnip at the local Farmer's market have to do with what the code for calling guards near town boundaries says?

You could say "But they're fueling money for PKs." and I would respectfully retort: Red Herrings explained.

If communication crystals aren't functioning properly, then that's just another item on the docket of things to fix for the staff in some upcoming patches. If you don't want to use any outside program from UO to communicate, then I honestly don't know what to say to you other than "Good luck playing." ICQ was the main program for communication back in the day for everybody. They had voice communication back then too. To be fair, however, the Chat crystal seems to have been removed from the Paperdolls...

[BlackFoot]

You have created UOR in our fine shard

+1

Patch after patch, UOSA becomes an UO:R shard with T2A pvp.

Sad.

So no guild chat means UOR? some solid logic

no really.. its a very convincing argument

[benny-]

The fact that there are different kinds of events is a red herring and has nothing to do with EA. Whether I'm playing a GM-Run 1v1 tournament or an event where I'm playing "pick up the item in a turnip field north of Britain" is completely unrelated to the mechanics of T2A. It's a policy decision of, "Should we allow looting during this event?" if the game takes place outside of the regular fields just as it is a policy decision of "Should we give event rewards to people for other in-game items?" It's not like they're saying, "Okay, since you won the tournament, you get 1 free [kill command to use." I guess a viable argument for getting rid of all event rewards is that they affect the "in-game economy", which is can still hardly be considered a mechanical part of game-play. What does the price of a turnip at the local Farmer's market have to do with what the code for calling guards near town boundaries says?

Completely disagree. We've all heard the argument before that "events existed during the era thus events can exist here and the differences between events of then and those of now are only a policy decision" (wow you people sound like lawyers defending this stuff ).

However there are vast differences between the events of then and now.

Comparing the rare rp/themed plot or side story of the era with a system in place to routinely automate things such as bagball, ctf, tournaments all held in fixed areas separate from the rest of the ig map and community (in Trammel of all places) is nonsense. In fact the only thing that these two can share is that either can be labeled "an event".

To further argue that such a system in place to generate these is in fact a mere policy decision is again nothing more than playing lawyer....mere nitpicking about what can be defined as era accuracy when clearly these have nothing to do with the era.

I'm all for era accuracy...if with this issue of guild and party chat, as much as it pains me I say go the route of accuracy (when clearly this is a good system.)

But people here trying to remove the most trivial of things in the name of accuracy who in the next breath try to defend policies (and even systems) which clearly offer gameplay, an economy, and even items that didn't exist during the era are completely hypocritical.

Play rules lawyer all you want but there is nothing accurate about a system in place to auto generate events on a schedule, held multiple times a day, every day of the week in the form of bagball, survival game, capture the flag, and the like, held in Trammel.

[BlackFoot]

Once people understand the goals of the server from inception it goes along way to helping them understand why automated events exist.

One of the largest misconceptions is that the goal of the server is to replicate players UO experience as it was in t2a, That is not the goal.
Replicating the economy as it was, replicating player interaction, guild dynamics, Seer events, or Global OSI story lines is not the goal.

The goal of accuracy applies to the core mechanics of the game. This is hard for most people to grab and then hold onto.
Every single server had uniqueness to it during t2a. It doesn't matter if it was guild towns, seer events, invasions, story lines, or different policy by the GMs all of the servers had differences except for one thing - the mechanics of the game (aside form the few shards such as Siege).

These core mechanics are the goal. Manipulating what admins or players chose to do with these core mechanics is not the goal.

1 - Did osi servers have events - yes - is this relevant to mechanical accuracy - no
2 - Were all events on osi servers the same - no - is this relevant to mechanical accuracy - no
3 - Did admins on osi decide how they would run events - yes - is this relevant to mechanical accuracy - no
4 - If in 1998 a seer had the power to run a ctf like we have the ability to do now would they - maybe - is this relevant to mechanical accuracy - no
5 - We copied the Trinsic invasion event that happened across all shards during t2a - yes - is this relevant to mechanical accuracy - no
6 - Could you send a mass in game spam message directly to every player in your guilds screen - no - is this relevant to mechanical accuracy - yes

[benny-]

Again you're trying to argue that a mechanic in place here on UOSA, a system to auto generate events according to a scripted schedule has nothing to do with the mechanics of the server and is only "a mere policy decision..."

Then you defend it by claiming that not everyone understands the goals of the server...

Anyone with any level of sense can see a stark difference between the events of then and now. Those defending these and claiming that they are completely irrelevant to the shard's goal of accuracy are simply picking and choosing what they want on this server and trying to categorize what can be argued as accuracy and what can be defended outside of accuracy.

Call it social engineering, policy decision, or whatever you like....there's nothing accurate about a system in place to routinely open a gate for you, whisk you off to trammel and let you play Capture the Flag....

[BlackFoot]

So its the built in system that is the problem. So what we need is for a seer to manually open the red gate everytime he holds an event and its a non issue?

This thread is about changing a core mechanic of the game that is known to be inaccurate, not about how admin chose to run their events.
Arguing one inaccuracy is ok by pointing out another one is a failed argument from the beginning.

[Hemperor]

It's interesting to me that the Seer added add-ons serve a point and are quite reasonable, where as here well, lol. "duel pit plz". The only part of what hemperor said that I agree with, is that the events and g-chat are seperate topics. It does however, serve as an excelent example for "era-accuracy". Nobody here has any right claiming "Absolutely not! thats NEA", when they are pro "events/silver".

Removing guildchat will degrade my playing experience. I think it's entertaining that the only people who are pro-removal are those who enjoy leet vent-synced combat. It's almost like hemperor knows he cannot compete with virtually anyone else in game, on a competitive level, so he spends his time trying to get "all kill" removed.

The whole "era-accuracy" argument was tossed out the door a long time ago, and rapidly this is becomming a pre-UO:R/UO:R server, with a couple of T2A mechanics.

Haha! Tamers rolling with 30 dragons that would ALL instantly attack at the same time with one line was a little insane, I'm happy we knocked that out. Syncing in vent is not only accurate but requires some form of skill.

Us "leet pvpers" don't have looping macros that all sync automatically at the drop of one party/guild message, unlike YOU and your guild who did this on a daily basis. The exploiter crying out of desperation, nothing new.

[Psilo]

I know I said I wasn't gonna post again in this thread but I just got the motivation to!

You guys can rationalize all you want, this affects the real community in a negative way.

You know what is really a shame about this discussion. The people that are going to be affected by this change if it goes through are the same people who don't have a forum or IRC account. They aren't here voicing their opinions so they are left out, cause they are busy playing UO. Most of our playerbase don't have accounts, so it really sucks that it's the bottom of the barrel players that can be seen in IRC only, that are voicing their biased opinions...

It's just a handful of the IRC/trade forum players that are arguing with me. Literally the only people that play the game was Matron(as much of a troublemaker as he is) and like 2 other people in this thread.

And yes, we call events trammelizing UOSA because they are not only literally held in trammel, but you have trammel rules, and restrictions on spells, restrictions on items, there's eye candy and other trammeled items to be won with silver.

By the way, events aren't "outside" of our era. I see event currency called silver locked down in houses and stuff, that's a UOR forum of currency. And it sells for a lot, anytime I need gold I can just sell 5 silver and be well off again(30k it a lot for me and I'm an old player)

I personally do think we have a good chance of keeping guild chat after Derrick reviews this thread. We need Derick to really think about this. Who will it harm? Is it really neccesary? Guild chat doesn't take away from the atmosphere of the game as much as IRC.

What really is the argument besides era accuracy? Events and silver aren't era accurate. And don't bring up botting because botting is easily done with UO Auto map, Easy UO. People use easy UO all the time, they just don't make scripts that are clearly illegal so that's how they never get caught.

Orphik doesn't need guild chat, he is simply looking out for the pvm/newbie/crafter community.

[Hemperor]

I know I said I wasn't gonna post again in this thread but I just got the motivation to!

You guys can rationalize all you want, this affects the real community in a negative way.

You know what is really a shame about this discussion. The people that are going to be affected by this change if it goes through are the same people who don't have a forum or IRC account. They aren't here voicing their opinions so they are left out, cause they are busy playing UO. Most of our playerbase don't have accounts, so it really sucks that it's the bottom of the barrel players that can be seen in IRC only, that are voicing their biased opinions...

It's just a handful of the IRC/trade forum players that are arguing with me. Literally the only people that play the game was Matron(as much of a troublemaker as he is) and like 2 other people in this thread.

And yes, we call events trammelizing UOSA because they are not only literally held in trammel, but you have trammel rules, and restrictions on spells, restrictions on items, there's eye candy and other trammeled items to be won with silver.

By the way, events aren't "outside" of our era. I see event currency called silver locked down in houses and stuff, that's a UOR forum of currency. And it sells for a lot, anytime I need gold I can just sell 5 silver and be well off again(30k it a lot for me and I'm an old player)

I personally do think we have a good chance of keeping guild chat after Derrick reviews this thread. We need Derick to really think about this. Who will it harm? Is it really neccesary? Guild chat doesn't take away from the atmosphere of the game as much as IRC.

What really is the argument besides era accuracy? Events and silver aren't era accurate. And don't bring up botting because botting is easily done with UO Auto map, Easy UO. People use easy UO all the time, they just don't make scripts that are clearly illegal so that's how they never get caught.

Orphik doesn't need guild chat, he is simply looking out for the pvm/newbie/crafter community.

I completely understand your concern for players that only communicate through these systems, however if everyone can be aware of the in-game chat it shouldn't be a problem. Possibly an updated MOTD leading up to this patch?

[BlackFoot]

It's just a handful of the IRC/trade forum players that are arguing with me. Literally the only people that play the game was Matron(as much of a troublemaker as he is) and like 2 other people in this thread.

You are attacking peoples qualifications for having an opinion instead of what they are saying again.

What really is the argument besides era accuracy? Events and silver aren't era accurate.

Again, pointing out one thing and saying it is a good excuse for another is not an argument.

[Hemperor]

I hate to clutter the topic, but Matron and her pack of "bots" are probably the most obvious exploiters of this system. They aren't pvpers, they are not capable of pvping without looping Razor macros that exploit UO:R systems. Heshe really only hurts your point by coming to this topic.