Ghosting. Multiple accounts. Crutch for bad pks?

[tekai]

How about we just all agree not to do it?

i mean its not that hard to go thru the runebooks looking for farmers.

[MatronDeWinter]

How about we just all agree not to do it?

i mean its not that hard to go thru the runebooks looking for farmers.

They arent using it to find people, they are using it to find the exact time to gate into the place. Thats the issue here.

[Arcott Ramathorn]

Well, lets say this. Currently, if I set up a miner to macro mine unattended on a boat, there is a very big chance that you are going to appear at some point and ask me a couple questions. If I don't answer and start mining again, you throw me in jail. How is this much different?

If a ghost is seen or reported in a PvM hotspot, you pop in, ask if they need a gate back to town. If its the same ghost a couple times you use your judgment and send them to jail and threaten to ban the account. This is not a system error, in that we have to change code to fix the system. This is a player mentality that can be changed with a rolled up newspaper and a pile of poop.

Agreed! This seems like the perfect solution. No coding, no changes, no problems.

"Are you being an A$$h0l3? I thought so, come with me."

[RoadKill]

If a ghost is seen or reported in a PvM hotspot, you pop in, ask if they need a gate back to town. If its the same ghost a couple times you use your judgment and send them to jail and threaten to ban the account. This is not a system error, in that we have to change code to fix the system. This is a player mentality that can be changed with a rolled up newspaper and a pile of poop.

Bad idea. Being a ghost shouldn't give you the ability to be sent to town. You should have to find your way home on your own. Also, what if someone dies, gets angry and decides to go out for a smoke, or to make lunch. They should be sent to jail for leaving their character in-game, doing nothing at all? That's unjust and flat out wrong.

[Senses]

I think all the same argument's could have been for the anti unattended macroing patrol. What if I just step away for 5 minutes to go to the bathroom? What if I accidentally left the macro running and didn't realize? What if I was on the other screen and got attacked and now only have 10 minutes to get back to my stuff before its gone.

No solution is perfect and ultimately it relies on the GM's to use judgement on whether or not to punish somebody. If the same ghost is in the LL room night after night its probably pretty obvious what is going on. Honestly, all a GM has to do is stand there for 5 minutes, the same as he does already for that mining boat, if he happens to see a ghost and a couple people pvming.

All of this of course depends on the fact that it *is* a problem and that we are actively looking for a solution. I come from the mindset that you don't always have to change the game to fix a problem. It would be nice if the people doing it would just agree to chill out with it a bit, but clearly they aren't going to.

[Waldo]

Leave things as they are ANYONE can use a ghost to scout/spy it was done 10 years ago, now it's just a lil more simple to do. As far as the nobody had more then 1 account back in the day..BS I cant think of anyone who didnt have at least a 2nd account (4 in my house) the only limitations where 1 char per account on SP.

[RoadKill]

I think all the same argument's could have been for the anti unattended macroing patrol. What if I just step away for 5 minutes to go to the bathroom? What if I accidentally left the macro running and didn't realize?

This is not the same argument at all.

[benny-]

BS I cant think of anyone who didnt have at least a 2nd account (4 in my house) the only limitations where 1 char per account on SP.

I disagree, the majority of UO players I knew had, in fact, one account. I am not saying no single players had multiple accounts back then, but let's look at the facts.

During actual T2A (as always on OSI servers) accounts cost a monthly fee. If you were that into UO back then and were willing to spend the hundreds of additional dollars every year just for some extra chars, good for you, but the majority of UO players did not.

Secondly, using additional accounts in such a way, from what I have seen and remember, would've been considered an exploit. OSI staff never hesitated to ban players who were clearly exploiting game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

Lastly, stock UO prevents a user on one computer to run more than one client at a time (thus the "Another instance of UO is already running..." message). While I will admit that there may have been methods or programs existing back then that allowed users to multiclient, there is nothing, to my knowledge that was legal, about multiclienting. Perhaps Im mistaken here, there may have been some third party program that was legal and allowed you to use multiclients, but if so, this definately wasnt something that was well-known back then.

To conclude...If there were individuals back then who were multiclienting and if it was in fact legal and if you spent hundreds of dollars annually to do so, then yes, you could use ghosts to camp your favorite areas.

Please, having every pk running about with a handful of clients, all idly watching numerous locations for the right moment to have their red recall in.....this is far from accurate.

This is just but another instance of third-party programs and multiclienting becoming the mainstream in UO simply because players have grown accustomed to it and now expect it....something that really detracts from the accuracy of the server.

My only solution.....somehow reinstate the prevention of multiclienting and bring back the one client at a time rule. I'm sure everyone would be up in arms about this, but there's nothing era-accurate about gatechars, healbots, or running four miners on all one screen, why have it here? Only because convenience has taken priority over accuracy.

[Creager]

During actual T2A (as always on OSI servers) accounts cost a monthly fee. If you were that into UO back then and were willing to spend the hundreds of additional dollars every year just for some extra chars, good for you, but the majority of UO players did not.

Saying the majority of UO players only had access to one account is only your opinion, take a sample of this thread for instace. It seems like more people infact did have multiple accounts, or atleast access to another account.

Secondly, using additional accounts in such a way, from what I have seen and remember, would've been considered an exploit. OSI staff never hesitated to ban players who were clearly exploiting game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

You're correct to say it was an expliot. However, i can say i used it almost daily and was never banned.

Lastly, stock UO prevents a user on one computer to run more than one client at a time (thus the "Another instance of UO is already running..." message).

At least without the expliot programs, it was very easy to play UO on another computer if you were using another account. It only gave you that message if you tried to log onto the same account.

Besides, there is nothing stopping someone from stealthing a character around, or just using the contrary tactic, scouting with a blue character. Same shit, different smell IMO

Sayings wither or not multi-clienting was common or uncommon is a fallacy, there is no evidence to back up the fact. From the sample of people in this thread, it seems to go about 50/50. In that case, half the population had the resources to mutli-client. Just because one person only remembers owning a single client, doesn’t mean the rest of the population used only a single client.

Regardless, multi-clienting is irrelevant in regards to ghosting on OSI. Nothing was stopping someone from ghosting on their lone account, and using ICQ or IRC to tell their guild where to go.

If its a problem you encounter in game, ADAPT. For one, ill say i havent had a problem directly related to this issue. I pvp and pvm in destard/deceit/and many other hotspots everyday for hours at a time.

No game mechanic should be changed, and I’m sure nothing will be changed as any change will defeat the mission of the server. If anything, a few more staffers to observe and oversee issues such as this should suffice.

[Arcott Ramathorn]

"Bad idea. Being a ghost shouldn't give you the ability to be sent to town. You should have to find your way home on your own. Also, what if someone dies, gets angry and decides to go out for a smoke, or to make lunch. They should be sent to jail for leaving their character in-game, doing nothing at all? That's unjust and flat out wrong."[/quote]

I still say good idea. You can get a free ride to town 2x a night right now, let alone a 2nd account to gate you out. Im sure if someone was jailed for ghosting, but was only afk a few moments for whatever reason they could page and explain what happened, But, as the other guy said the GM would question the ghost and check out the situation before jailing anyone not just jailing ghosts willy nilly.

Im not sure but arent you the leader of the ace guild?(correct me if im wrong) The ones that inspired this post originally?
Original poster wrote:
"A little while ago I was killed by 5 Ace members who gated in right on top of me at LL's at a moment when my life was low and I was midcast.

I died to Ace and it's horde of pvp helpers.

After I died, I saw why. Because they have the spawn ghosted, and knew exactly when to come in."

I dont think anyone at this point in Ultima Online doesnt expect to be attacked in dungeons BUT for the pker and his "helpers" to show up at the exact point, your damaged and in midcast, by anything other than chance is ...(insert explitive)

[RoadKill]

I still say good idea. You can get a free ride to town 2x a night right now

The "free ride" you mention isn't suppose to be used as a free ride. In fact, when you use it as a "free ride" you're exploiting it in theory, as it's meant to be used when you are STUCK, not when you are to lazy to walk out or wait for a gate.

...let alone a 2nd account to gate you out.

Not everyone multiclients. Not everyone has a 2nd acct to gate them out. Not everyone wants to gate themselves out. Some people actually play this game still. What if I'm alive? Should it be legal to go AFK with a naked hidden guy? It's just as effective as a ghost in most scenarios, and in the worst case scenario, your scout gets killed and is a ghost. Should players who die AFK in dungeons be jailed?

Im not sure but arent you the leader of the ace guild?(correct me if im wrong) The ones that inspired this post originally?

Not sure if this was directed at me due to the misquoting, but no, I have no affiliation with ACE and never have.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Leave things as they are ANYONE can use a ghost to scout/spy it was done 10 years ago, now it's just a lil more simple to do. As far as the nobody had more then 1 account back in the day..BS I cant think of anyone who didnt have at least a 2nd account (4 in my house) the only limitations where 1 char per account on SP.

QFT

I've got an idea why don't you get hiding? Or why don't you not let yourself get mob nuked below 60% health. Or how about sending your own ghost in. Or how about standing in a location that makes it easy to escape.

Theres to many options to avoid dying to this.

This isn't UOG Divinity where the staff changes anything they believe to be "ghey".

L2P nubz k thx

[Teknix]

i really dont think there is anything that can be done about this.


that being said, i hate seeing the ghost in the brit gy all day. who honestly thinks they are a badass for killing new players to the shard/game by just switching over to their red ghost hidden in one of those crypts and then brings their pking crew to easily destroy whatever newbie is hunting there? there are bigger fish to fry, and think about this for a minute. if you were to let them build up their character and possibly tell friends of what a cool server this is, they might bring more people here. more people = more people to kill in the future. i guess its a question of what kinda experience these people that use ghosts want to get from the server, a server that is still small and needs as much growth as possible.

[HardActToFollow]

What about making Ghosts not be able to pull up the lifebars on alive players? I mean its not like a ghost "needs" to see the lifebars.

This way you still can ghost, but you dont know the status aka lifebar of the blue in the room, he could be at full health/mana for all you know.

[MatronDeWinter]

What about making Ghosts not be able to pull up the lifebars on alive players? I mean its not like a ghost "needs" to see the lifebars.

This way you still can ghost, but you dont know the status aka lifebar of the blue in the room, he could be at full health/mana for all you know.

I dont think ghosts can open a healthbar. If they have one open it is from dragging it before dying, and unfortunately that is a client side thing.