The Cut-Off Date

[BlackFoot]

Im just gonna throw an idea out for anyone who the data

Make a simple bar/timeline excel chart by month with what changes took place when.
It would make it very simple to visually see what your talking about.

How long certain features were in place. From when to when.
How this particular feature didnt exist when this feature existed etc.
Then you could draw a shaded area of where UOSA is trying to place itself.

Somthing people could take a quick look at, or even post it on the website somwhere.

[Faust]

That may be helpful Blackfoot but would be large.

[Spitfire]

Yes, I know the stated cut-off date is November 23, 1999 but let's keep this in mind.

That Publish is still era accurate. It was before UO:R.

Some things included with Nov 23 are:

1. Maker's Mark
2. Perma-Red
3. Skill Locks
4. The removal of your bank box's weight limit
5. Runebooks
6. Potion Kegs
7. Co-Owners to your house
8. The ability to feed your pack animals
9. A huge increase in lockdowns for all house types.

Some minor things:
1. The ability to lock down stacked items in your house (just put it in a bag)
2. A "do you really wish to purchase this" gump when buying from vendors.
3. Naming your pets "you" or "your bag"
4. Alchemy messages "You see player X doing this" appear on the lower left hand corner.

Honestly, do we really want to get rid of these things for a previously stated "cut-off"?

I'm pretty sure almost everyone on the shard favors being able to use skill locks but because this was the originally intended cut-off date, this means it would be accurate for me to make you lose 1-2 points in Resisting Spells by lighting campfires when we're fighting.

If they really plan on getting rid of all these things, good on them and thanks for the hard work regardless.

IMHO, though, you're killing off some fairly huge aspects of gameplay that nobody wants to get rid of. This isn't like Party or Guild chat where it's completely obvious that it isn't accurate.

I, personally, favor keeping almost all of the above and not keeping any changes that came to UO after this date.

Seriously, this Publish pretty much perfected the era.

Come on guys, it really wouldn't be that hard to say "We won't include anything after November 23rd." would it? Naturally, we'd all expect the Staff to stay firm on certain things but flexibility with this really wouldn't be unwarranted or unjustified either!

I guess it comes down to "do we include all of these things or none of them"?

The decision on housing lock downs is well thought out. It doesn't match the "spirit" of the era, which brings me to this:

Young Player Status is era accurate (around mid-99) but, understandably, since it is extremely unfitting for the style of play endorsed almost in the entirety of T2A, it's not included here.

What amongst those changes, then, do match the zeitgeist of this game?

IMHO:
- Potion Kegs
- Runebooks
- The Maker's Mark

Skill locks and no bank weight restriction? Not so much but who would seriously want to get rid of those two? In this vein, we're talking about player enjoyment that doesn't come to a detriment of the shard's overall goal.

.02 Given

If I had to choose "all or none" of this patch, I would choose all.

[Corbin]

Im just gonna throw an idea out for anyone who the data

Make a simple bar/timeline excel chart by month with what changes took place when.
It would make it very simple to visually see what your talking about.

It would be cool to see a flash based timeline that has lines on it for every change made and balloons out with the information on what was changed... but that's just a dream. hehe

[Ollie]

I have a hard time understanding why these removals would be at all desirable to anyone.

Also, does anyone actually remember how the huge lockdown system worked? Leaving crap all over your house became unnecessary. I understand the fear, but all that it truly removed was house looting.

Also, thanks for the props blackbeard. Was wondering if anyone actually read that post, as I have been too busy in game to mess around on the forums much.

I think you miss the purpose of the shard, which is to replicate '99 as accurately as possible - so if something "was", then it "is" - good or bad. The only exceptions being game breaking bugs like duping.

House looting is about as T2A it gets to me so it would make sense to choose a patch before this as the target date. But it seems it's been settled on "some of nov 23, 1999 patch", which is a bit of a cop out imo, I'd prefer either or, but it is rather convenient so I'm not that bothered.

That's a perfectly acceptable attitude and I agree with it, but what about the other major problems that ARE serious glaring inaccuracies like auto events. People seem to assume that I demand changes to a tried and true method- THis couldn't be further from the truth- I instead say that if you're going to allow PvPers to have something that many accuracy lover have a problem with, why not be fair about it?

There is one thing I am certain of of something that happened over 10 years ago- Auto events simply did not exist in the era and never did. yes this is a separate issue, but any discussion involving era accuracy at all costs MUST include this!

[Faust]

Please leave the era accuracy discussion out of the events Ollie.

The events will be inaccurate no matter what conditions are met and this is the reason it falls under a policy decision instead of mechanical accuracy.

[Blackbeard]

the patch doesn't refer to blacksmith makers mark - that existed as far back as I played UO.

http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_1

These enhancements will affect Tailors, Carpenters, Blacksmiths, and Tinkers ... An exceptional katana made by a Grandmaster smith who chooses to place his maker's mark on it will say, "a katana crafted with exceptional quality by..." This will be true for all exceptional items.

yes he is referring to dex based timer on healing

Thanks. You just helped my rebuttal.

I think you miss the purpose of the shard, which is to replicate '99 as accurately as possible

These updates are era accurate. They occurred during The Second Age. This is the third or fourth time I've stated this fact so far.

We should either 1) wipe the Nov. 23rd '99 patch and fall back to the previous one or 2) use the Nov. 23rd '99 patch and leave it at that.

Thanks Faust. That was exactly what I've been saying the past four pages. Remove skill locks, maker's mark, Runebooks and Potion Kegs if you're going to make a bank weight limit.

Keeping the housing system Pre-November 23rd while keeping the other stuff that came with that patch isn't that big of a deal.

Or you can do the "pick and choose" method. Doesn't matter. It's just a game and I'm not the one who runs this website. I'm just the voice of logic here.

Young Player Status is era accurate. This shard is going to be inaccurate until YPS is implemented.

[nightshark]

the patch doesn't refer to blacksmith makers mark - that existed as far back as I played UO.

http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_1

These enhancements will affect Tailors, Carpenters, Blacksmiths, and Tinkers ... An exceptional katana made by a Grandmaster smith who chooses to place his maker's mark on it will say, "a katana crafted with exceptional quality by..." This will be true for all exceptional items.

yeah thanks, i have the ability to read. you're still wrong. blacksmiths and tailors applied makers marks before this patch, blacksmiths and tailors would now have the ability to CHOOSE whether a makers mark was applied, and all exceptional quality items would be marked with "an exceptional (item)". tinkers, fletchers and carpenters gained the ability to apply makers mark, they could not previously

maybe you should actually re-read the whole section about makers marks with a semi open mind. or you could stay wilfully ignorant

I think you miss the purpose of the shard, which is to replicate '99 as accurately as possible

These updates are era accurate. They occurred during The Second Age. This is the third or fourth time I've stated this fact so far.

that post wasn't even aimed at you, i quoted and replied to ollie. don't take stuff out of context

[Blackbeard]

that post wasn't even aimed at you

That's nice.

[Mens Rea]

The Phase II house patch was a big step towards the completely secure version of UO- the beginnings of UO:R.

Consensual PVP, lots of lockdowns and secures, unlimited bank weights... the lot.

The game was undergoing a metamorphesis into what WoW is now. A completely secure, no consequences, risk free, colourful chat room. UOSA has always banged the drum of shunning such certainty.

Ditch unlimited bank weights. If you want to store 10,000 boards/regs/ingots get a house. If you want to keep your 10,000 boards/regs/ingots, don't let the house get looted.

Ditch co-owners, if you want to have a really cool storage area in all of your 15 houses across 3 accounts then use a key. If you don't want your really cool storage area to get looted then don't let anyone get your interior door key, or use the owner to unlock the table of your secure area.

As for skill locks, the atrophy system would only drop skills that you haven't used. Use your skills and stop crying.

BACK TO PHASE I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Izual]

Some good thoughts..

However i'm in favor of Co-Owners.

I don't have 15 houses. I have 1 house, and I would like to be able to lockdown/release on whatever character I am on because sometimes I like to change it up and play a different characters.

[Mens Rea]

I don't have 15 houses. I have 1 house, and I would like to be able to lockdown/release on whatever character I am on because sometimes I like to change it up and play a different characters.

You will find a way to adapt my friend.

[Arcott Ramathorn]

As for skill locks, the atrophy system would only drop skills that you haven't used. Use your skills and stop crying.

Im not so sure this is true...I remember quite a few people complaining about losing gm magery or resist(usually magery) to campfires. People were quite peeved that the skills that seemed to drop were typically the hardest to gain.


If they take away skill locks, I hope that not too many people rage quit when cA puts AFK camperbots all over Britain!

[Mens Rea]

Passive camping gain was quite clearly an unintended bug. It should have been removed with all gain-by-proximity skill gain.

Remove it, on the same basis that we don't have flying boats, submarines, duping or illegal house placement. They were all unintended bugs that subtracted from the game.

Do away with passive skillgain on the basis that it should have been removed, or was removed, or that it was a bug...

then stop crying.

[MatronDeWinter]

Passive camping gain was quite clearly an unintended bug. It should have been removed with all gain-by-proximity skill gain.

Remove it, on the same basis that we don't have flying boats, submarines, duping or illegal house placement. They were all unintended bugs that subtracted from the game.

Do away with passive skillgain on the basis that it should have been removed, or was removed, or that it was a bug...

then stop crying.

I tend to agree with this.
Without skill locks, detect hidden in a house becomes more annoying. Good for business.