Yew orc fort: a count-free warzone

[Capitalist]

Just for teh orcs!

[1vs1]

Just so everyone's aware, we won't be turning any area into a free war zone for everyone.

To be honest, after hearing this I really think that the orcs should just create normal characters. I like you guys, but it's probably just about the worst shard that Shadowclan could have chosen to move to. It's supremely unforgiving when it comes to role players.

[Wydstrin]

To be honest, after hearing this I really think that the orcs should just create normal characters.

You really dont understand orcs do you...

[Kaivan]

Just so everyone's aware, we won't be turning any area into a free war zone for everyone.

To be honest, after hearing this I really think that the orcs should just create normal characters. I like you guys, but it's probably just about the worst shard that Shadowclan could have chosen to move to. It's supremely unforgiving when it comes to role players.

What justifiable reason is there for creating an war zone for everyone to attack others in without impunity as a result of the Shadowclan existing?

[1vs1]

What justifiable reason is there for creating an war zone for everyone to attack others in without impunity as a result of the Shadowclan existing?

Not really trying to speak for them, but I would really like to have them somehow. So here is my opinion anyway.

I dunno if you've ever seen the fort on Siege but that place was a war zone 24/7/365. You could have upwards of fifty guys on foot in ring mail chasing after you at any given time with bodies everywhere. Considering that orcs usually suck for the most part and they're going to be dead 99% of the time anyway, I don't think that stat loss is going to encourage them to stick around for very long. This isn't like Bloodrock, it's more of a zerg guild that is lots of fun to kill.

I really don't know what to tell you guys because you shouldn't break era accuracy honestly. Some of the most fun I've ever had in UO was killing orcs on Siege and trying to take over their fort, even the UO developers and seers loved role playing with them. But if I were the orcs I would make normal human characters because they just can't be orcs like this.

[Khazym]

Just so everyone's aware, we won't be turning any area into a free war zone for everyone.

What justifiable reason is there for creating an war zone for everyone to attack others in without impunity as a result of the Shadowclan existing?

1. This server while experiencing a small rise in population recently, is still woefully low in population. Having shadowclan and proposed area is a definate magnet and selling point- not only for new potential players but also holding the attention of some of the players we already have. This is not even debatable.

2. Frankly, who can guarantee that the server has time to play primadonna upon the era accuracy principle (which is not totally applicable in this point) or insist that "they have not put in enough time" before the population dips or declines again.

[Kaivan]

What justifiable reason is there for creating an war zone for everyone to attack others in without impunity as a result of the Shadowclan existing?

Not really trying to speak for them, but I would really like to have them somehow. So here is my opinion anyway.

I dunno if you've ever seen the fort on Siege but that place was a war zone 24/7/365. You could have upwards of fifty guys on foot in ring mail chasing after you at any given time with bodies everywhere. Considering that orcs usually suck for the most part and they're going to be dead 99% of the time anyway, I don't think that stat loss is going to encourage them to stick around for very long. This isn't like Bloodrock, it's more of a zerg guild that is lots of fun to kill.

I really don't know what to tell you guys because you shouldn't break era accuracy honestly. Some of the most fun I've ever had in UO was killing orcs on Siege and trying to take over their fort, even the UO developers and seers loved role playing with them. But if I were the orcs I would make normal human characters because they just can't be orcs like this.

Quoting Siege Perilous as the justification for this is not a valid point. We aren't replicating that specific server, and mixing in those mechanics would drive us further from accuracy, regardless of whether you based it on Siege Perilous accuracy, or on the other 17 or so servers. Beyond that, you point out that the Shadowclan orcs aren't like the Bloodrock orcs, and that they are simply a "zerg" guild. If we accept this point as true, then I refer to the point in my last post: the special mechanics for defending the fort were given specifically to support RP events and behavior. If Shadowclan isn't intent on doing that, and simply wants the privilege because of playing a specific role, then it simply won't happen.

Just so everyone's aware, we won't be turning any area into a free war zone for everyone.

What justifiable reason is there for creating an war zone for everyone to attack others in without impunity as a result of the Shadowclan existing?

1. This server while experiencing a small rise in population recently, is still woefully low in population. Having shadowclan and proposed area is a definate magnet and selling point- not only for new potential players but also holding the attention of some of the players we already have. This is not even debatable.

This is very debatable. The "small rise" in population is actually relatively large, and the change in population precedes Shadowclan by several months. Not only that, but using population as a means of breaking era accuracy is not a valid argument, particularly when it is the goals of the server - at least in part - that have provided this population in the first place.

2. Frankly, who can guarantee that the server has time to play primadonna upon the era accuracy principle (which is not totally applicable in this point) or insist that "they have not put in enough time" before the population dips or declines again.

Again, the threat of massive population drop unless we break with our stated goals is not a valid argument now, nor has it been a valid argument for the last 4 years that it has been presented. The point of this rhetorical question is that there is no valid justification for presenting a war zone for everyone to fight in, given the restrictions of the server. Beyond that, there is no justification for giving special privilege to a particular group of players simply because they want it, or they interact in an interesting way. This type of privilege is given specifically to support serious RP groups in contributing to the world through their RP.

[Pac]

Just so everyone's aware, we won't be turning any area into a free war zone for everyone.

To be honest, after hearing this I really think that the orcs should just create normal characters. I like you guys, but it's probably just about the worst shard that Shadowclan could have chosen to move to. It's supremely unforgiving when it comes to role players.

Clearly. Because they showed up, demanded something, then didn't get it means they should just pack up and leave.

[1vs1]

[Clearly. Because they showed up, demanded something, then didn't get it means they should just pack up and leave.

Yup, exactly what I said.

[1vs1]

Quoting Siege Perilous as the justification for this is not a valid point. We aren't replicating that specific server, and mixing in those mechanics would drive us further from accuracy, regardless of whether you based it on Siege Perilous accuracy, or on the other 17 or so servers. Beyond that, you point out that the Shadowclan orcs aren't like the Bloodrock orcs, and that they are simply a "zerg" guild. If we accept this point as true, then I refer to the point in my last post: the special mechanics for defending the fort were given specifically to support RP events and behavior. If Shadowclan isn't intent on doing that, and simply wants the privilege because of playing a specific role, then it simply won't happen.

I wasn't even pushing for them to have a war zone on this server to begin with; you're the one who replied to me and asked me for my opinion. I'm not going to write an essay and go over this with you point-by-point explaining my viewpoint - I'm not even a freaking orc.

I really think that they'd just be better off leaving or finding a different shard to go do their thing, because it's not going to work here. They're probably going to stick around for a bit and that's not my problem, but they're going to learn that it's not going to work out for them the hard way.

[Light Shade]

They will not and should not receive special privileges just for showing up. Like i've mentioned in other discussions, it takes MONTHS of an active presence in-game, on the forums, and on IRC along with hosting many events and keeping up a roleplaying aspect. I like the start they've given and if they're around several months from now and still going strong, i'm sure they'll probably get some neat add-ons like the Urks got. Until then, though, they will not get anything. Simply put, you've got to put in your time like everyone else did. Too many guilds show up strong for a month or two and then fade never to be seen again. Prove that you're different and you'll get all the support you need from the players and the staff. Words are like wind, though. Get out there and play the game and play your playstyle.

Sorry if that comes across as rude, but its just the reality of the situation whether you agree with it or not.

That having been said, I hope these guys stick around and if they need any help from me...I am always glad to lend it.

-L/S

[Kaivan]

Quoting Siege Perilous as the justification for this is not a valid point. We aren't replicating that specific server, and mixing in those mechanics would drive us further from accuracy, regardless of whether you based it on Siege Perilous accuracy, or on the other 17 or so servers. Beyond that, you point out that the Shadowclan orcs aren't like the Bloodrock orcs, and that they are simply a "zerg" guild. If we accept this point as true, then I refer to the point in my last post: the special mechanics for defending the fort were given specifically to support RP events and behavior. If Shadowclan isn't intent on doing that, and simply wants the privilege because of playing a specific role, then it simply won't happen.

I wasn't even pushing for them to have a war zone on this server to begin with; you're the one who replied to me and asked me for my opinion. I'm not going to write an essay and go over this with you point-by-point explaining my viewpoint - I'm not even a freaking orc.

I really think that they'd just be better off leaving or finding a different shard to go do their thing, because it's not going to work here. They're probably going to stick around for a bit and that's not my problem, but they're going to learn that it's not going to work out for them the hard way.

Right now I'm not sure whether you're conscious of the fact that you're making two separate arguments. The first, which is for a count-free zone for the orcs to defend their fort with is what you referred to when you said the following:

Considering that orcs usually suck for the most part and they're going to be dead 99% of the time anyway, I don't think that stat loss is going to encourage them to stick around for very long. This isn't like Bloodrock, it's more of a zerg guild that is lots of fun to kill.

My reply to that argument is that they should not be rewarded with special privileges simply because they show up, and that they are given with a specific intent of supporting an RP environment. I also made this very clear in my first reply in this thread.

Your other argument, which is for a count-free zone for everyone is the exact question that I for justification on when I said the following:

What justifiable reason is there for creating an war zone for everyone to attack others in without impunity as a result of the Shadowclan existing?

Your reply to that argument amounted to: because Siege, and I gave a very direct and very clear response to that:

Quoting Siege Perilous as the justification for this is not a valid point. We aren't replicating that specific server, and mixing in those mechanics would drive us further from accuracy, regardless of whether you based it on Siege Perilous accuracy, or on the other 17 or so servers.

There is nothing obtuse about what I said. I was addressing your two interleaved arguments, and making a distinction between why there is no justification for a count-free zone for everyone, and why a count-free zone for the orcs is not going to happen at this time.

[son]

Why the hell don't they just join THE EXISTING ORC GUILD THAT HAS THE FORT?

[1vs1]

Why the hell don't they just join THE EXISTING ORC GUILD THAT HAS THE FORT?

Because they aren't the same guild? Derp.

[random guy]

Why the hell don't they just join THE EXISTING ORC GUILD THAT HAS THE FORT?

Because Bloodrock No longer is Active here and has not been for the past 2 years which has been stated many times before. Shadowclan IS the ONLY existing and active orc guild. THATS WHY!!!